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#1 Aug 27 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Interesting pictures on the Beeb today.

Blueprints from the original POW camp idea.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8224666.stm
#2 Aug 27 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Goggy wrote:
Interesting pictures on the Beeb today.

Blueprints from the original POW camp idea.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8224666.stm
Well them are just down right creepy. Too bad they weren't around for the Nuremberg Trials.








Edited, Aug 27th 2009 5:58pm by Elinda
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#3 Aug 27 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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If the blueprints are creepy, try walking through what is left. I went through dachau, not auschwitz, but the layout and the magnitude of horror is still the same. Standing in a room with shower heads connected to gas lines and knowing what they were used for changes you a little bit. I can't smell much, but there is still a lingering scent in the creamatoriums after all these years.
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#4 Aug 27 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
If the blueprints are creepy, try walking through what is left. I went through dachau, not auschwitz, but the layout and the magnitude of horror is still the same. Standing in a room with shower heads connected to gas lines and knowing what they were used for changes you a little bit. I can't smell much, but there is still a lingering scent in the creamatoriums after all these years.


Yup. Its a truly crushing experience. Yad Vashem, the holocaust museum in Jerusalem is another place that left me feeling utterly gouged out.

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#5 Aug 27 2009 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah Palusol - I was in Jerusalem recently and went there. Very very emoitional place.
#6 Aug 27 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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My girlfriend (of the time) and her sister took me there. They were Isrealis whose family were Iraqi jews, and I swear we were unable to function in any meaningful way for hours after we left.


Its one of the events in my life that had the most immediate impact on the way I've come to see the world.
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#7 Aug 27 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I was on an organisaed tour, so they rushed us a bit. I probably could have spent twice the time there and then been an emotional basket case for a few days.
#8 Aug 27 2009 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Patrician only visits us when he drunk. :(
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#9 Aug 27 2009 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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#10 Aug 27 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Patrician wrote:
I was on an organisaed tour, so they rushed us a bit. I probably could have spent twice the time there and then been an emotional basket case for a few days.


It was definately worthwhile. We did a lot of 'comforting' later. And Israeli women are teh hawtness.
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#11 Aug 27 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Speaking of, if anyone hasn't been to any of these places or just wants a good story, Maus is a terrific graphic novel about Art Spiegelman's (the author's) father, who survived through man-hunts and Auschwitz as a Polish Jew.

I actually posted a thread about it awhile ago, and bought/read it awhile ago. Never came back to discuss though.
#12 Aug 28 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
I went through the holocaust museum in D.C. when I was 15 and I still remember the emotions from walking through that place today.

That was a heavy day in general, my grandfather was a career Marine who served in Vietnam and we visited the Wall before going to the museum so grandpa could take some etchings of names Smiley: frown
#13 Aug 28 2009 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
If the blueprints are creepy, try walking through what is left. I went through dachau, not auschwitz, but the layout and the magnitude of horror is still the same. Standing in a room with shower heads connected to gas lines and knowing what they were used for changes you a little bit. I can't smell much, but there is still a lingering scent in the creamatoriums after all these years.


I went to Auschwitz. I don't know--I felt weirdly detached b/c I can't really imagine what it was like tohave experienced what they experience. It's pretty horrific. I don't remember smelling much. I do remember how they deemphasized how much it was aimed at the Jews and the Roma and thought that was part of the same ****** up anti-Semitism that I'd been hearing from my students all year..
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#14 Aug 28 2009 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Annabella wrote:
I do remember how they deemphasized how much it was aimed at the Jews and the Roma and thought that was part of the same @#%^ed up anti-Semitism that I'd been hearing from my students all year..


What the hell? What did they say? "Funny coincidence"?

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#15 Aug 28 2009 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Annabella wrote:
I do remember how they deemphasized how much it was aimed at the Jews and the Roma and thought that was part of the same @#%^ed up anti-Semitism that I'd been hearing from my students all year..


What the hell? What did they say? "Funny coincidence"?


Well, they killed a few million other people who weren't Jews. Jews were just the most intensely persecuted out of all of them. I remember a very intense gay rights activist and gender historian who was, strangely enough, criticising the Jews for taking the limelight and causing history to ignore all the gay people Hitler rounded up as well. She thought the Jews stole their thunder, so to speak. I thought it was very odd to be fighting over which minority deserves the honour of being systematically exterminated in the largest numbers.

It's silly, but I think of the Holocaust as history, and it's hard for me to get emotionally attached to history. I can look at it and recognise that it was a pretty damn ****** thing to have happened, but it doesn't **** me up that much, emotionally speaking. You look at history and there's so much ****** stuff going on that you just end up viewing it amorally, because if you stopped and thought about all the people you'd devolve into a weeping wreck and wouldn't be able to write an accurate essay.
#16 Aug 28 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Annabella wrote:
I do remember how they deemphasized how much it was aimed at the Jews and the Roma and thought that was part of the same @#%^ed up anti-Semitism that I'd been hearing from my students all year..


What the hell? What did they say? "Funny coincidence"?



No more like they talked about Polish losses more than specifically Jewish or Roma losses. I remember how many camps you would find--smaller concentration camps built beneath the earth. I was living in Silesia, a center for alot of this activity and damn, Poland was devastated by WWII. If you consider that Warsaw was like 80% destroyed and Gdansk even more, the rebuilding of the Warsaw Old Town during the Communist era is incredibly impressive.

Quote:

Well, they killed a few million other people who weren't Jews. Jews were just the most intensely persecuted out of all of them.


And Roma. But the biggest differences between the Jews and other persecuted groups, like communists and homosexuals is that the Jews almost exclusively went to Death Camps--that were mainly in Poland and others were more likely to be sent to Labor Camps, which were more likely to be in Germany and some other countries. While both had pretty horrific conditions, Death Camps were much more likely to result in execution while Labor Camps were work camps where people were somewhat more likely to survive.

It's a complicated history where people were shuffled around and goals changed but at the end of the war, especially, when things were really bad, Jews were being exterminated en masses at places like Sobibor where there was not even attempts at working them to death anymore. The ***** killed as many as they could right at the end. It was tragic in general. I remember in particular that the Jews of Budapest had survived throughout much of the war due to some complicated negotiating between the leadership and the **** party and some marginal attempts to reach out to the British--and then were mass executed in 1944-45.


Edited, Aug 28th 2009 6:23pm by Annabella
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