The Rich get a little less Rich :: Free Realms

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#52 Aug 23 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent

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But what if during the next 2 years, you/your spouse/father/son/family member managed to win lottery/struck gold/business success and your whole household become billionares.

Buy small house or apartment (fully) buy better car (fully) pay of existing debt save maybe 200k, give rest away. I don't have any idea why you thought this would puzzle me, or make me question my values. It's not like every other person in the world hasn't asked me this question before.

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I may consider donating to the truly poor people such as starving Africans, but I'm not giving anything to any of you fat, lazy, money-grubbing Americans!

Hilarious then, that you'd pick the lottery to make this point, when that particular windfall is unquestionably something that you didn't do an ounce of work to earn.

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Go find a job and don't be picky about it.

Most don't seem to be willing to deal with my schedule. It's not the most urgent thing in the world though, though in another year, I can be much less picky. The point though, dude, that you ignored, is that even with an income of zero, I practice the ludicrously self-destructive act of giving my **** away on a constant basis, even though I have a very practical excuse not to. Someone with millions and millions of dollars does not; instead they have a retconned idea of dessert.

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#53 Aug 23 2009 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent

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It's easy to give **** away when you didn't work to pay for it though...

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#54 Aug 23 2009 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent

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Well it wasn't my example.

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#55 Aug 23 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent

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Buy small house or apartment (fully) buy better car (fully) pay of existing debt save maybe 200k, give rest away.

You'll give your fortune away, huh. It's easy to say that in the forum. It's just words. Do I believe you though? Well, I'll keep my opinion to myself.
This is why I said not to answer it. It's pointless. Words are too easy.

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It's easy to give sh*t away when you didn't work to pay for it though...

No, it's not. Lottery winners do not give all their fortune away. Donate a little maybe, but no. None ever did, none ever will.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 8:35pm by McGame

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#56 Aug 23 2009 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent

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McGame wrote:

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It's easy to give sh*t away when you didn't work to pay for it though...

No, it's not. Lottery winners do not give all their fortune away. Donate a little maybe, but no. None ever did, none ever will.

I was talking about Mr. Zero Income who "practices the ludicrously self-destructive act of giving [his] sh*t away on a constant basis, even though [he has] a very practical excuse not to."

Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 8:37pm by TirithRR

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#57 Aug 23 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent

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I was talking about Mr. Zero Income who "practices the ludicrously self-destructive act of giving [his] sh*t away on a constant basis, even though [he has] a very practical excuse not to."

Well damn, here I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You think that I didn't work for the savings that I give away? Interesting, and wrong.

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Do I believe you though?

Of course you wouldn't. You're jaded and have a hard time imagining someone who doesn't think or act like you do, probably due to selectively applied empathy. From my perspective, having more money than is needed plus a luxury or two (like internet, a new game every now and then, etc) is approximately as revolting to me as eating your own sh*t.

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This is why I said not to answer it. It's pointless. Words are too easy.

They're no cheaper than your own words. The fact that you can't imagine someone actually having social conviction isn't my fault. It's like a non-decision: would you torture this baby for a cheeseburger? Would you eat a worm sandwich for a dollar? Would you streak across a middle school commencement? Would you keep the entirety of a lottery win? No, no, no, and no.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 8:50pm by Pensive

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#58 Aug 23 2009 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good

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McGame wrote:

There are many many examples of this. Let's take one individual that us computer people are all familiar with - Bill Gates. While he didn't start out as destitute, but he was by no means wealthy. Now there's a man with a vision. He has always been looking out for something lacking in the world that he will be able to provide, thus making his fortune. When he identified his opportunity, he didn't even wait to finish uni (or was it college?), quit his study and jumped right into it. This is just the beginning for him, not only did he succeed at first, he was able to continue his success till he retires, because he is always thinking, always monitoring the market and adjusting his strategies.

I feel like I should point out: Bill Gates isn't a college dropout who nevertheless became incredibly rich by getting straight into business. Bill Gates entered Harvard with an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600, and he spent most of his time at Harvard ******** around with their computers. Bill Gates left Harvard because Harvard didn't offer a suitable computer science course at that point in time. Bill Gates was basically working ten ******* years ahead of his university.

Not to mention that his father was a lawyer and his mother served on the board of directors for a financial holdings company, and her father was a national bank president. In fact, he was rich enough that he got to play around with a computer in his teenage years, which in the early 70s was the equivalent of giving your son a private jet. Don't get me wrong, the man is scary smart. He just had a pretty firm head start, financially speaking.

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#59 Aug 23 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good

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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:

Of course you wouldn't. You're jaded and have a hard time imagining someone who doesn't think or act like you do, probably due to selectively applied empathy. From my perspective, having more money than is needed plus a luxury or two (like internet, a new game every now and then, etc) is approximately as revolting to me as eating your own sh*t.

Pensive, you aren't going to convince anyone here. I mean, your own position is basically a huge stereotype. You're an unemployed college student. You don't want a lot of money, just enough to live off, plus an internet connection and some computer games. And a computer to play them off. And maybe a DS. And some anime every now and then.

Wait, what am I ******* saying. You know this already. You're just repeating yourself because you like typing so much.

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#60 Aug 23 2009 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent

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Pensive, you aren't going to convince anyone here.

I have about as much persuasive rhetorical skill as a sack of yams. It would be foolish of me to think that I could convince anyone of anything.

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#61 Aug 23 2009 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good

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In other news, I gave two dollars to a homeless person the other day and he insulted me. Should I ask for my money back?

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#62 Aug 23 2009 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good

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zepoodle wrote:

In other news, I gave two dollars to a homeless person the other day and he insulted me. Should I ask for my money back?

Wait til he falls asleep and take half of his liver and a kidney.

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#63 Aug 23 2009 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent

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If I had, say, twenty billion USD, I'd build a small, beautiful town on some tropical island - and if none were available, I'd build my own. Then I'd build a great white wall around it. This is what I call a moral boundary - nothing that occurs outside the wall is any of my concern. I would create an oasis in the sea, a place of universal joy, all the while contributing to the suffering in the outside world to fund my paradise.

And if happiness for all (inside the wall, that is - fuck everyone else) got boring, I could always interpret the wall as facing the other way.

Edited, Aug 24th 2009 3:37am by Kavekk

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#64 Aug 23 2009 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good

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In other news, I gave two dollars to a homeless person the other day and he insulted me. Should I ask for my money back?

Offer another homeless guy within earshot more.

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#65 Aug 24 2009 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good

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Everybody knows that the fight was fixed, the poor stay poor, the rich get rich, that's how it goes...

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#66 Aug 24 2009 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent

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RedPhoenixxx wrote:

Everybody knows that the fight was fixed, the poor stay poor, the rich get rich, that's how it goes...

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#67 Aug 24 2009 at 6:03 AM Rating: Excellent

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This thread just seems to be begging people to reiterate their positions on well established sides of broad economic policy. The liberal latte crew tending toward more equal distribution and gbaji and friends favoring increased wealth among the rich, both arguing why they believe we all benefit from their positions.

Are my expectations here incorrect?

Of course not. But we derail it into an analyzing the pros and cons in representative democracies in comparison to more directed systems. It's a much more interesting thing to look at.

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#68 Aug 24 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good

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Lots of people make 10 million dollars or more in salary and other compensation on an annual basis. I'm amazed that is even up for debate. The CEO of Circuit City made 8 million the year before the company went bankrupt. The CEO of Cigna, a major health insurance company, made 24 million in 2007. I'm sure it would be easy to google some wealthy people like Bill Gates, Oprah, Warren Buffett, the Walton family, the Mars family and others to find annual incomes that exceed the "average" American salary by three orders of magnitude.

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#69 Aug 24 2009 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good

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Whoah, whoah, whoah... let's back up a bit. Whose baby and where's the cheeseburger coming from?

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#70 Aug 24 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good

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naatdog wrote:

I'm amazed that is even up for debate.

The fact that CEOs make a lot of money is not what is up for debate. It's the disparity between what the richest and poorest earn.

Back in the 1970s, CEOs earnt on average 30 times what workers earned. Today, they earn on average 300 times what workers earn.

If you compare the average workers salary to the average private equity or hedge fund manager, the figure is 16,000. You read that right.

That's what people have trouble with, I think. I can't understand how this is justified, personally.

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#71 Aug 24 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent

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RedPhoenixxx wrote:

If you compare the average workers salary to the average private equity or hedge fund manager, the figure is 16,000. You read that right.

well ****.

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#72 Aug 24 2009 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent

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The fact that CEOs make a lot of money is not what is up for debate. It's the disparity between what the richest and poorest earn.

Back in the 1970s, CEOs earnt on average 30 times what workers earned. Today, they earn on average 300 times what workers earn.

If you compare the average workers salary to the average private equity or hedge fund manager, the figure is 16,000. You read that right.

That's what people have trouble with, I think. I can't understand how this is justified, personally.

And it's a fallacy to group those who wish the gap (Or curve) was lessened with those who believe there should be no gap. But it happens often enough regardless.

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#73 Aug 24 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good

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Timelordwho wrote:

And it's a fallacy to group those who wish the gap (Or curve) was lessened with those who believe there should be no gap. But it happens often enough regardless.

I wasn't under the impression that I had done so.

Edit: Hmm, maybe you weren't talking about me. In which case, yeah, what Joph said.

Edited, Aug 24th 2009 3:22pm by RedPhoenixxx

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#74 Aug 24 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good

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I wasn't under the impression that I had done so.

Edit: Hmm, maybe you weren't talking about me. In which case, yeah, what Joph said.

Yep, this is just for when this thread inevitably becomes 45 pages long and Varrus starts calling everyone a communist.

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#75 Aug 24 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good

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McGame wrote:

You have 0 income a year? No wonder you are trying to rob from the rich. Go find a job and don't be picky about it.

If you think you believe in the concept of distribution of wealth, then think about this and decide whether you truly believe in it or not.

While you are sitting on your bum doing nothing and being poor, you're all for distribution of wealth. No surprises there. But what if during the next 2 years, you/your spouse/father/son/family member managed to win lottery/struck gold/business success and your whole household become billionares.
Now that you find yourself among the top 10 richest in America, would you be willing to give up your fortune to everyone else, basically? Or would you conveniently forget this distribution of wealth concept?

You don't have to answer that. I can tell you MY answer. If I were to suddenly become a billionare, even if it is due to pure luck and no effort (ie. winning lottery), there is no way in the frozen hell that I would give up my fortune. If you so much as come to my door to talk about distribution of my (not exactly well-earned) fortune, you can say hello to my shotgun. I may consider donating to the truly poor people such as starving Africans, but I'm not giving anything to any of you fat, lazy, money-grubbing Americans!

So, I do not truly believe in distribution of wealth.

Let's see.

Currently, I make about $27k a year working in a mill. ($13.85/hr, for those of you playing the home game.) And you know what? My response is oddly similar to Pensive's!

I've figured what I need to live comfortably (at present) to be ~$50k/year before taxes. Let's assume I can get 2% on my money without any real problem. This means I need $2.5M to be able to live off the interest only.

Anything above that point is entirely superfluous to both my needs and my wants. What the hell else would I end up doing with the money?

So: yes, if I suddenly had a billion dollars or more dropped in my lap, a pretty substantial amount of it would get redistributed through means other than spending it on useless fucking junk. Like, about 99% of it, give or take a few million dollars.

Life really isn't one of those "he with the most toys wins" things.

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#76 Aug 24 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent

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Anything above that point is entirely superfluous to both my needs and my wants. What the hell else would I end up doing with the money?

So: yes, if I suddenly had a billion dollars or more dropped in my lap, a pretty substantial amount of it would get redistributed through means other than spending it on useless @#%^ing junk. Like, about 99% of it, give or take a few million dollars.

Life really isn't one of those "he with the most toys wins" things.

As I have said and I dread to repeat, this is what you say and think now while you don't have a billion dollars. We are all forced to live by our means. When you do get a billion dollars, who's to say you won't suddenly have the urge to buy a huge mansion by the sea, or go travel the world in luxury hotels and try out first class restaurants, buy that Ferrari you've dreamed as a child, acquire you own airplane and fly around in the sky like you've always wanted, set up a huge home theatre with crisp surround sound to play your videos/video games in awe, experience the best the world has to offer before you die, simply because you can.
A homeless person thinks a small house and three stable meals a day is all people needs. Why else would anyone else need anything?
A man with a small house thinks that all humans need is a decent house, a good car, a nice tv or computer for entertainment, and enough money to spend on drinks in the weekends. Why else would anyone need anything else?

Again, don't answer that assumptive statement. All you need to do is give real evidence - examples of billionares/millionares who give up all their fortune, and how many of these there are. Those who are old and retired who pass on their fortune to their successors do not count.

Edited, Aug 24th 2009 6:32pm by McGame

Edited, Aug 24th 2009 6:41pm by McGame

Edited, Aug 24th 2009 6:43pm by McGame

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