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#52 Jul 31 2009 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Considering most of the car companies in America are majority-owned by the gubberment in the first place

GM is. Is Chrysler still? I know Ford stayed clean of that whole thing. And, of course, you have the various import dealerships. Hard to mandate that Toyota and Honda cut their prices.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#53 Jul 31 2009 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Demea wrote:
Considering most of the car companies in America are majority-owned by the gubberment in the first place

GM is. Is Chrysler still? I know Ford stayed clean of that whole thing. And, of course, you have the various import dealerships. Hard to mandate that Toyota and Honda cut their prices.

Also, I think more people are willing to trade in a car for a discounted new vehicle than they would be willing to go purchase a second vehicle.
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#54 Jul 31 2009 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, I could care less. All of my cars get at least 25 MPG highway, and the newest one is still 13 years old. If it helps people get out of inefficient vehicles, then I'm all for it. SUVs need to GTFO my roads anyway.
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#55 Jul 31 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Kastigir wrote:
Honestly, I could care less. All of my cars get at least 25 MPG highway, and the newest one is still 13 years old. If it helps people get out of inefficient vehicles, then I'm all for it. SUVs need to GTFO my roads anyway.


My 3 liter turbo diesel SUV is considerably more efficient and cleaner than all of your cars.

So, you gtfo the road.
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#56 Jul 31 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Yeah, I listened to Rush too. I'm sure your cracker is in the mail


He makes a good point.

Is this plan anti-family?
You can't fit 3 kids into the backseat of a car?
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#57 Jul 31 2009 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
bsphil wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Yeah, I listened to Rush too. I'm sure your cracker is in the mail


He makes a good point.

Is this plan anti-family?
You can't fit 3 kids into the backseat of a car?


If you can fit two parents...
#58 Aug 01 2009 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
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Scrap the plan.

The government is not supposed to spend money on improving things, duh. The American car companies should be allowed - no, mandated - to pumping out more 10mpg mega-carrier SUVs and go utterly bankrupt.

Don't you know anything about free market economics?
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#59ThiefX, Posted: Aug 01 2009 at 8:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Do you?
#60 Aug 01 2009 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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It is anti-family. You could fit an American family of five from the 1950s in those cars, but the modern American family just won't fit.
#61 Aug 01 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
Sweetums wrote:
It is anti-family. You could fit an American family of five from the 1950s in those cars, but the modern American family just won't fit.


I'm pretty sure I could fit a family of 5 in this. If a mother of 3 goes out and buys a Chevy Aveo with the extra cash, that's not a failing of the program, but a failing of the mother.
#62 Aug 01 2009 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
Don't you know anything about free market economics?


Do you?

Yes.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#63 Aug 01 2009 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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The Great BrownDuck wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
It is anti-family. You could fit an American family of five from the 1950s in those cars, but the modern American family just won't fit.


I'm pretty sure I could fit a family of 5 in this. If a mother of 3 goes out and buys a Chevy Aveo with the extra cash, that's not a failing of the program, but a failing of the mother.


I think she's saying that everyone is too fat to fit into the same space.
#64 Aug 01 2009 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
The Great BrownDuck wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
It is anti-family. You could fit an American family of five from the 1950s in those cars, but the modern American family just won't fit.


I'm pretty sure I could fit a family of 5 in this. If a mother of 3 goes out and buys a Chevy Aveo with the extra cash, that's not a failing of the program, but a failing of the mother.


I think she's saying that everyone is too fat to fit into the same space.


Got that. But the escape is pretty large. Ever had one pull up next to you?
#65 Aug 01 2009 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, jokes on me then.

I still don't get the need for suvs. I can fit four grown people relatively comfortably in my thunderbird. I guess I can see it if you really need to carry around a lot of crap.
#66 Aug 02 2009 at 5:35 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Well, jokes on me then.

I still don't get the need for suvs. I can fit four grown people relatively comfortably in my thunderbird. I guess I can see it if you really need to carry around a lot of crap.


A van or truck is better for carrying things though. (Not saying those get better mileage, since obviously trucks are pretty bad when it comes to MPG).
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#67 Aug 02 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Well, jokes on me then.

I still don't get the need for suvs. I can fit four grown people relatively comfortably in my thunderbird. I guess I can see it if you really need to carry around a lot of crap.


A van or truck is better for carrying things though. (Not saying those get better mileage, since obviously trucks are pretty bad when it comes to MPG).


My Sienna minivan has more cargo room than any SUV I've ever seen, AND it seats 7 people, or we can take out the back row of seats and have as much or more cargo space than a pickup truck while still being able to seat four people comfortably (unlike the so-called "back seat" of an extended-cab pickup.)

There is nothing an SUV can do that a good minivan can't do better, while getting better gas mileage.
#68 Aug 02 2009 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
catwho the Mundane wrote:
So, in theory, you could turn in a clunker with 15 MPG, get one with 19 MPG, and save $3500. It's not really helping the environment that much but it's certainly helping out the car dealerships.

Not quite.
Quote:
The requirements for trade-in vehicle.

It has to be 18 mpg or less, built in 1984 or after and be in drivable condition. The trade-in vehicle must be registered in purchaser's name and owned for 1 year.

Cash for Clunkers program details for cars bought with the trade ins have the following requirements.

The new car has to have at least 22 mpg and cost under $45,000. There will be $3,500 subsidy for car with 4 mpg improvement and $4,500 for 5 mpg improvement.

That said, there's plenty of suitable vehicles. If you go hybrid, you can even get a variety of SUVs.


That quote is wrong.

I believe the 5 mpg limit only applies to larger trucks.

From the cars.gov rules website:

http://www.cars.gov/files/TheRule.pdf wrote:
in a transaction involving a trade-in vehicle that is a passenger automobile, a category 1 truck, or a category 2 truck and a new vehicle that is a passenger automobile, each meeting the eligibility criteria discussed in the last section, if the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy that is 4 to 9 miles per gallon higher than the tradein vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy that is at least 10 miles per gallon higher than the trade-in vehicle, the credit is $4,500.



It also appears that dealerships only keep 50 dollars of the scrap value to cover "administrative costs".

Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 7:01pm by TirithRR
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#69 Aug 04 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Well, jokes on me then.

I still don't get the need for suvs. I can fit four grown people relatively comfortably in my thunderbird. I guess I can see it if you really need to carry around a lot of crap.


A van or truck is better for carrying things though. (Not saying those get better mileage, since obviously trucks are pretty bad when it comes to MPG).
The average person who owns a truck/SUV for "carrying things" maybe moves something that merits it a couple of times a year. For every person that actually pulls a trailer full of ATVs on dirt roads every weekend, there are countless delusional soccer moms. For most people, it's little more than a fashion statement.

Edited, Aug 4th 2009 4:05pm by Sweetums
#70 Aug 04 2009 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm curious as to how bad this is going to effect the automotive service industry.

As far as the scrap value, I think it goes to the consumer on top of the rebate.
#71 Aug 04 2009 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
I'm curious as to how bad this is going to effect the automotive service industry.


Seems like it'd be great for the service industry. You'll have a bunch of new cars on the road that have warranty coverage for all breaks, so people would actually be more willing to bring them in to fix rather than let it sit. I know personally if I had a brand new 2009 car I'd get more frequent repairs done, rather than let things sit like I do for my older vehicles.

Check engine light is on for my 20 year old car? Ya, what else is new.

Check engine light is on for my 1 year old car? I'll get it looked at.
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#72 Aug 04 2009 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Mechanics make absolute crap off of warranty work. In fact, it's a common punishment at dealerships. ***** something serious up and you become the warranty tech for a week or so. I've even seen people pushed out of dealerships by being forced to be the warranty tech.

I'm not a mechanic but I have several in the family and have spent time as a service writer to help out.
#73 Aug 04 2009 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Mechanics make absolute crap off of warranty work. In fact, it's a common punishment at dealerships. ***** something serious up and you become the warranty tech for a week or so. I've even seen people pushed out of dealerships by being forced to be the warranty tech.

I'm not a mechanic but I have several in the family and have spent time as a service writer to help out.


I always figured it was like insured medical work. Do as much as you can to milk the cash out of the insurance company.

Like today I hit my head at work on a piece of metal and cut open my scalp (man... head wounds bleed a lot). Went to the clinic, got cleaned up and patched up. They scheduled me for a visit one week from now. The only reason I can think of is they want a reason to get more money from the insurance company. Because a week from now I'm sure my scalp will be healed and they'll just look at it, say it's ok, and send me on my way.
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#74 Aug 04 2009 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Mechanics make absolute crap off of warranty work. In fact, it's a common punishment at dealerships. ***** something serious up and you become the warranty tech for a week or so. I've even seen people pushed out of dealerships by being forced to be the warranty tech.

I'm not a mechanic but I have several in the family and have spent time as a service writer to help out.


Mom had a warranty on her car. Had some brake issues, took it in and the mechanics put a new hub in. Happened 3 more times and each time they replaced the hub. This was all under warranty i might add. Warranty finally expired and the problem came back, well now they cant just leech off the warranty anymore so they finally fixed the faulty wiring harness which was the problem all along. Good god i wonder how much that harness was. Probably a 20 dollar part.

Mechanics are absolute crooks, especially towards women. I hardly trust them to change the oil.
#75 Aug 04 2009 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
KTurner wrote:
Some mechanics are absolute crooks, especially towards women. I hardly trust them to change the oil.


Fixed. I agree with you, and I also have some friends in the mechanic business. They hate the crooks just as much as you. Needless to say, my friends get my business.

Edit: Ok, maybe "most" would have been a better fix. Not met enough mechanics to be sure though.

Edited, Aug 5th 2009 12:59am by Vancar
#76 Aug 04 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Im sitting here trying to remember a good experience with a mechanic. drawing a blank.

Wife called to have an estimate for a brake job. Basic job, front end only. This was before i had a garage to do my own work in... Hangs up the phone with a 400 dollar estimate. I call the next day, same place, 120 dollar estimate.
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