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#27 Jul 21 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
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publiusvarus wrote:

LMAO...Want to know how good Obamacare is call your representative and ask them why they voted to exempt themselves from it. Obama is lying his as* off to get this thing passed. Do you really think passing this plan is going to reduce the deficit and create jobs? Wait look who i'm asking, of course you do.

The healthcare bill is supposed to reduce the deficit and create jobs!?...and here I thought it was to help insure proper, affordable, equitable healthcare for all Americans.









Edited, Jul 21st 2009 4:09pm by Elinda
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#28 Jul 21 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
The argument that big pharma needs to charge assloads of money to fund innovation and research is a load of crock when you actually read a bit and find out that the vast majority of pharma and health research is already funded by the government, in the form of NIH grants.

Quite frankly, one of the most effective means of reducing the price of meds and funding a national health insurance options would be to require that any NIH funded research has the patents sold to the NIH, and leased to big pharma, instead of sold directly to them leaving the people that did the actual funding of the research (re: taxpayers) out of the profit.
#29REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 6:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Aripya,
#30REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 6:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#31 Jul 21 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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3,229 posts
publiusvarus wrote:
Did you see a picture of the new surgeon general? Obama does seem to have a thing for fat black women.


You're an idiot.
#32REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 6:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Goggy,
#33 Jul 21 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Obviously you havn't needed healthcare outside the US. Thanks for playing.


I live outside the US, you stupid ****.
#34 Jul 21 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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3,229 posts
publiusvarus wrote:
Goggy,

You sure told me. That doesn't change the fact that Obama apparently has a thing for fat women.



It doesn't change the fact that what you wrote is not a fact.

publiusvarus wrote:
fat black women


You're fooling no one changing it in your text.

#35 Jul 21 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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12,049 posts
publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Of course not. It's a health care bill, not a job creation bill. In fact, I answered the same way the last time you asked that dumb question.



but Obama just said this;

Quote:
"This isn't about me. This isn't about politics. This is about a health care system that is breaking America's families, breaking America's businesses, and breaking America's economy," Obama said on a visit to a Washington hospital.


So obviously "fixing" healthcare is going to save american families, businesses, and the economy.


Well, it would provide healthcare that cannot be had by tens of millions of Americans right now. That would save families. It would free up companies that need to offer some kind of medical care but have no chance to offer alternatives (semi-public places like universities, for example), so that would help business. And if the 1-to-20 dollar figure of preventative care can be taken as true, and right now millions of Americans don't have preventative care, it can also help the economy. But as Joph said... it's not a job creation bill. It's a health care bill. At the end of the day it is to help millions of Americans who cannot receive even basic treatment... even if they already work multiple jobs.
#36 Jul 21 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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publiusvarus wrote:
So obviously "fixing" healthcare is going to save american families, businesses, and the economy.

Which doesn't mean it's a job creation bill.

Quote:
Also if this legislation is so good why not make it available for everyone to read?

Every bill going before a vote is up on various websites. If you can't find it there, maybe it's because it's not yet a completed bill going presented to Congress.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#37REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 6:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kavek,
#38 Jul 21 2009 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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3,229 posts
publiusvarus wrote:
Kavek,

Quote:
I think the United States has such an abysmal system it'd take a lot of effort to make it any worse.


Coming from someone who doesn't live in the US. Why do you give a sh*t?


Goggy,

BS...Mrs Obama is fat and so is his new surgeon general. H*ll so is Sotomayer.




What difference does it make? I assume you're going to come back with some crap about promoting healthier lifestyles to cut down on the US dollar expense on the overweight.
#39 Jul 21 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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10,601 posts
Quote:
And in a govn systemt, doctors will be acting on behalf of a govn that tells them who qualifies and who doesn't
So instead of only certain people qualifying everyone qualifies.

It's interesting to read your posts, because you describe this horror system that actually reflects the system you have right now, and doesn't reflect any actual implementation of government health care.
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#40REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 7:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#41 Jul 21 2009 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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29,360 posts
Quote:
Obama only said it was about, "the economy, american families, and businesses" why would anyone think it's a job creation economy saving bill?


Good question. Only an idiot would assume that.

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#42REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 7:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Xarus,
#43REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 7:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#44 Jul 21 2009 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Coming from someone who doesn't live in the US. Why do you give a sh*t?


I'm a humanitarian.
#45REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 7:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kavek,
#46 Jul 21 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Samy,

I didn't assume anything. It's what he said.

For your kool-aid drinking as* here it is again;

Quote:
This is about a health care system that is breaking America's families, breaking America's businesses, and breaking America's economy,


Obama said this. So obviously if we don't fix healthcare our economy is still going to be screwed?

You're a tool.





Do you think health care as it is right now is a burden on American businesses?

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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#47REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 7:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#48 Jul 21 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
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So you decline to answer a simple question. Good, good.

____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#49REDACTED, Posted: Jul 21 2009 at 7:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#50 Jul 21 2009 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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varus, right now you have a situation where your government alone is spending more on healthcare then almost any other nation. This is in addition to the massive amount companies and individuals are spending on healthcare. With all this money pouring into the system, estimates indicate that up to 40% of american citizens do not have sufficient coverage to deal with a serious medical emergency. (17% of those have none at all)

I'm curious what your solution to this problem is? How should people who can't afford it get health care? Currently they just go to the ER and due to that and no access to regular care end up costing your system far far more then if the government just payed for something like a yearly doctors visit. Do you want to leave these people to just die? Well, I'm glad you appear to be in the minority at the moment, because I fundamentally disagree with that vision.

The US has an absolutely huge overhead compared to other countries. How do you deal with this massive amount of money simply being sucked away?
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#51 Jul 21 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
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16,781 posts
MyTie wrote:
Yeah, I see that now. I will change the way I make OPs.

My opinion, if it isn't to late, is that a capitolism, although flawed, provides a more affordable form of healthcare than government provided. I think that goes for just about anything.
I shall respond.

Capitalism is great. It's awesome. But it's not sufficient, in and of itself to insure adequate and equitable distribution of necessary services. Two points:

First - The market of medicine, if you will, is flawed. It's not a free-flowing supply-demand relationship. The highly specialized nature of the services and the in depth research required for products restricts the market from delivering a fairly priced product to all consumers with demand.

Second - Healthcare is deemed a necessity by our society. Indeed, it's pretty easy to see how our very neighborhoods could suffer if healthcare is NOT available. So, you see it's an essential good - like food, water, shelter, education, security. It's the governments responsiblity to insure a minimal sustainable level of healthcare to all citizens.

Clearly, things are not working. Government led healthcare has worked in many other countries. We'd be foolish to continue to give the drug companies and health insurance companies more and more money for less and less in return. This should have been deal with more than a decade ago. I gotta believe I elected that guy that could make some good decisions for this country. The research I've done, and the people I've talked to have bolstered my opinion that what we need are more public options - which seems to be what the latest dem plan is all about.
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