McGame wrote:
This race issue used to be true, but now it has become more and more of a BS joke. Trust me, even when all the white people are kneeling down and kissing the black's feet, they will still be pulling their race cards and calling racism.
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If you ever wonder what "white privilege" means, just come and re-read this paragraph.
Nobby wrote:
The balance of reports I've read say the animosity arose from the officer's refusal to provide his name and badge number.
You didn't bother to read the police report, did you?
The officer identified himself immediately when asked. Before Gates identified himself, in fact. It was after that point, when the officer was leaving that Gates kept insisting that he provide his badge number, but then interrupted him with continual racial slurs as he attempted to provide the information.
Basically, Gates appears to have been trying to bait the officer into a confrontation. Amusingly enough, it appears that the officer in question is an instructor who specializes in racial profiling training. He did as his own instruction presumably says, and instead of continuing an argument inside the house with limited witnesses and an agitated subject, he proceeded to exit the building and invited Gates to follow him if he wished to continue the conversation. Gates did so, and continued to harass the officer outside, at which point the issue became "public". The officer warned Gates that he was becoming disruptive and when Gates continued with his diatribe, the officer arrested him.
It looks to me like Gates attempted to play the race card on this one and ran into the exact wrong cop. Instead of some rookie, who might make a mistake and get trapped, he ran into a guy who knows exactly how to handle this sort of situation. I'm sorry, but Gates is in the wrong here. He clearly was the one escalating this, not the officer. There are a half dozen or so witnesses to the event. As to the "they were all white officers", it appears that he was accompanied by two other officers, one Latino, and one Black.
I just think that professor Gates is barking up the wrong tree here. He should be the one apologizing, not just to the officers at the scene, and to his neighbors, but to everyone who's been a legitimate victim of racism and everyone in the future who will and who's cases have been weakened by an egotistical professor who apparently believes that the laws don't apply to him like they do to everyone else...
He ought to be ashamed of himself.
Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 6:16pm by gbaji
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Quote:
If you ever wonder what "white privilege" means, just come and re-read this paragraph.
Unfortunately, it is this kind of mentality that prevents people from moving on. Here we have a black professor living in high society, abusing the socks out of a police officer, then playing the victim afterwards. Where exactly does white privilege fit into this scenario? I don't know about you, but I think the black professor is more privileged than the white policeman, hmm?
Race was an issue when Gates' neighbor called the cops on him for trying to get into his own house.
It remained an issue inside the house.
Outside, I'd say race didn't really play a factor in the arrest. It was more a case of the cop being a jerk for no other reason than he was a cop & he could be.
Granted, I'm sure Gates was a jerk too. But given the situation, I think he had a right to be.
It remained an issue inside the house.
Outside, I'd say race didn't really play a factor in the arrest. It was more a case of the cop being a jerk for no other reason than he was a cop & he could be.
Granted, I'm sure Gates was a jerk too. But given the situation, I think he had a right to be.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
gbaji wrote:
Nobby wrote:
The balance of reports I've read say the animosity arose from the officer's refusal to provide his name and badge number.
You didn't bother to read the police report, did you?
The officer identified himself immediately when asked. Before Gates identified himself, in fact. It was after that point, when the officer was leaving that Gates kept insisting that he provide his badge number, but then interrupted him with continual racial slurs as he attempted to provide the information.
Basically, Gates appears to have been trying to bait the officer into a confrontation. Amusingly enough, it appears that the officer in question is an instructor who specializes in racial profiling training. He did as his own instruction presumably says, and instead of continuing an argument inside the house with limited witnesses and an agitated subject, he proceeded to exit the building and invited Gates to follow him if he wished to continue the conversation. Gates did so, and continued to harass the officer outside, at which point the issue became "public". The officer warned Gates that he was becoming disruptive and when Gates continued with his diatribe, the officer arrested him.
It looks to me like Gates attempted to play the race card on this one and ran into the exact wrong cop. Instead of some rookie, who might make a mistake and get trapped, he ran into a guy who knows exactly how to handle this sort of situation. I'm sorry, but Gates is in the wrong here. He clearly was the one escalating this, not the officer. There are a half dozen or so witnesses to the event. As to the "they were all white officers", it appears that he was accompanied by two other officers, one Latino, and one Black.
I just think that professor Gates is barking up the wrong tree here. He should be the one apologizing, not just to the officers at the scene, and to his neighbors, but to everyone who's been a legitimate victim of racism and everyone in the future who will and who's cases have been weakened by an egotistical professor who apparently believes that the laws don't apply to him like they do to everyone else...
He ought to be ashamed of himself.
Gbaji is correct. For those who don't know, the entire police report (including a secondary report filed by a witnessing officer can be viewed here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Gates_Arrest.pdf
Matter of factly, Gates reacted in the same manner that allows, no, encourages racism to continue in this country and elsewhere. He refused to accept the fact that the officer was doing his job and got arrested for disorderly conduct, something he is clearly guilty of. If any racism occurred, it may have been on the part of the person who called the police, and most certainly occurred on the part of Gates himself. It is doubtful that the officer in question behaved in any manner that can be construed as racism, and personally, I'd have done the same, were I in the officer's position.
Edited, Jul 24th 2009 12:05am by BrownDuck
Okay anna, looks like some strong examples showed up. Retracting earlier statement that no one had been implicitly racist.
She's not talking about Gate's hypothetical outburst. She's talking about your racism that arises from the denial of privilege. Privilege doesn't hate to mean that you're racist, or even complicit with it. It means that you, simply in virtue of being a certain type of person, are the target of prejudice, in a positive light, instead of a harmful one. You can't ditch the privilege, but you can recognize it and attempt to understand it's effects, thereby preventing yourself from being actually racist. If you don't recognize it, you end up minimizing and dismissing accounts of racism that actually exist by writing them all off as imagined, in the past era, or abolished.
Edited, Jul 24th 2009 1:14am by Pensive
Quote:
Unfortunately, it is this kind of mentality that prevents people from moving on. Here we have a black professor living in high society, abusing the socks out of a police officer, then playing the victim afterwards. Where exactly does white privilege fit into this scenario? I don't know about you, but I think the black professor is more privileged than the white policeman, hmm?
She's not talking about Gate's hypothetical outburst. She's talking about your racism that arises from the denial of privilege. Privilege doesn't hate to mean that you're racist, or even complicit with it. It means that you, simply in virtue of being a certain type of person, are the target of prejudice, in a positive light, instead of a harmful one. You can't ditch the privilege, but you can recognize it and attempt to understand it's effects, thereby preventing yourself from being actually racist. If you don't recognize it, you end up minimizing and dismissing accounts of racism that actually exist by writing them all off as imagined, in the past era, or abolished.
Edited, Jul 24th 2009 1:14am by Pensive
I <3 Ben Harper.
Quoted from the PDF:
Arresting him for 'Loud and tumultuous behaviour in a public place', just really compounds what he is protesting.
If he was using abusive words, swearing etc... then I could agree. No wonder the charges have been dropped. He is fully within his rights to protest his innocence.
Quote:
and yelled that "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA"
Arresting him for 'Loud and tumultuous behaviour in a public place', just really compounds what he is protesting.
If he was using abusive words, swearing etc... then I could agree. No wonder the charges have been dropped. He is fully within his rights to protest his innocence.
Quote:
Race was an issue when Gates' neighbor called the cops on him for trying to get into his own house.
It remained an issue inside the house.
It remained an issue inside the house.
Orly? You know, the neighbour obviously didn't know who lived in the house, as is the case with many city folks.
Lesson of the day:The next time you see a black guy looking like he is trying to break into a house, do not call the cops! If you do, then you're a racist. Preach it!
Quote:
She's not talking about Gate's hypothetical outburst. She's talking about your racism that arises from the denial of privilege. Privilege doesn't hate to mean that you're racist, or even complicit with it. It means that you, simply in virtue of being a certain type of person, are the target of prejudice, in a positive light, instead of a harmful one. You can't ditch the privilege, but you can recognize it and attempt to understand it's effects, thereby preventing yourself from being actually racist. If you don't recognize it, you end up minimizing and dismissing accounts of racism that actually exist by writing them all off as imagined, in the past era, or abolished.
There is obviously still racism floating around, such as the white supremists and skinheads, but the majority of people are not racists anymore, compared to the old days.
In this case of the black prof, I do not see any racial motive, either in the neighbour, or in the cop. The only racist here is the black prof. He's also a douchebag.
Confucious once said: "He who acts like a ****, shall be treated like a ****."
Sorry, Smash, but I've been stalking you. The place across the street just offered the best vantage for watching your activites. I promise I won't do it anymore.
Totem
Totem
McGame wrote:
Quote:
Race was an issue when Gates' neighbor called the cops on him for trying to get into his own house.
It remained an issue inside the house.
It remained an issue inside the house.
Orly? You know, the neighbour obviously didn't know who lived in the house, as is the case with many city folks.
Not sure about the neighbours, but the issue is still apparant, look at the police wording "I stepped into the residence, Sgt Crawley had already entered, and was speaking to a black male", surely he was speaking to a male?
Quote:
Lesson of the day:The next time you see a black guy looking like he is trying to break into a house, do not call the cops! If you do, then you're a racist. Preach it!
"Next time you see a guy looking like..."
Subconsciously, you're doing it yourself.
Quote:
She's not talking about Gate's hypothetical outburst. She's talking about your racism that arises from the denial of privilege. Privilege doesn't hate to mean that you're racist, or even complicit with it. It means that you, simply in virtue of being a certain type of person, are the target of prejudice, in a positive light, instead of a harmful one. You can't ditch the privilege, but you can recognize it and attempt to understand it's effects, thereby preventing yourself from being actually racist. If you don't recognize it, you end up minimizing and dismissing accounts of racism that actually exist by writing them all off as imagined, in the past era, or abolished.
Quote:
There is obviously still racism floating around, such as the white supremists and skinheads, but the majority of people are not racists anymore, compared to the old days.
There is a difference. Those who overtly declare their hatred for a particular race or creed and those who still see him as a 'black man'
Quote:
In this case of the black prof, I do not see any racial motive, either in the neighbour, or in the cop. The only racist here is the black prof. He's also a douchebag.
"In the case of the black prof"
You seeing it now?
Quote:
Confucious once said: "He who acts like a ****, shall be treated like a ****."
QFT.
Apologies if this has been mentioned already (this'll please Varrus 
).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/23/obama-race-henry-louis-gates
Obama wades into race row over Harvard professor's arrest
President says officer 'acted stupidly' in arresting Henry Louis Gates and highlights history of police racism
President Barack Obama has waded deep into an increasingly bitter race row by saying that a white police officer "acted stupidly" in arresting a renowned black Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates, after he forced the door of his own home.
The president's additional comments about a long history of police racism amid accusations that one of the country's most prominent African-American scholars was detained only because he is black has dampened enthusiasm for claims that Obama's election takes America "post-racial".
Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct after neighbours called the police when they saw him and a black taxi driver attempting to force the jammed front door of his home in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
What transpired is disputed but after producing identification to show that he was at his own house, a row ensued in which Gates demanded an officer's name and badge number and accused him of racial profiling. The police sergeant then arrested him for disorderly conduct.
"This is what happens to black men in America!" Gates yelled to a crowd outside his house as he was handcuffed. Charges were later dropped.
The president, responding to a question at a press conference about the arrest, said Gates was a friend and that he was uncertain what role race played in the dispute. But Obama condemned the police and said the incident is "a sign of how race remains a factor in this society".
"The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home," he said. "What I think we know, separate and apart from this incident, is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. And that's just a fact."
Obama had earlier lightened the mood by wondering what would happen if he were trying to break in to his own home.
"Here, I'd get shot," he said of the White House.
But Obama's comment was also taken as an observation about the assumptions white police officers make about black men in responding to reports of criminal behaviour.
Gates said he was pleased with the president's support.
"I think it was brilliant," he said in an interview with the broadcaster Tavis Smiley. "It is a great speech about race, and race relations, particularly between black people and white people at the beginning of the 21st century."
Gates said the arrest made him aware of how minorities are vulnerable "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman".
But the police officer at the centre of the row, Sergeant James Crowley, told a Boston radio station that he won't be apologising and that it is "disappointing that he [Obama] waded into what should be a local issue".
"I know what I did was right," he said.
Other officials were prepared to apologise to Gates, including the mayor of Cambridge, Denise Simmons, who called him to say that the arrest was "regrettable and unfortunate". The state governor, Deval Patrick, said he was troubled and upset over the incident.
Gates has won considerable support from other academics, some of whom have said that there is a mistaken belief among some white Americans that the country is moving beyond racial issues after Obama's election.
Gates agrees.
"I thought the whole idea that America was post-racial and post-black was laughable from the beginning. There is no more important event in the history of black people in America than the election of Barack Obama ... but that does not change the percentage of black men in prison, the percentage of black men harassed by racial profiling," he told the New America Foundation.
"There haven't been fundamental structural changes in America. There's been a very important symbolic change and that is the election of Barack Obama. But the only black people who truly live in a post-racial world in America all live in a very nice house on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue [the White House]."
). http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/23/obama-race-henry-louis-gates
Quote:
Obama wades into race row over Harvard professor's arrest
President says officer 'acted stupidly' in arresting Henry Louis Gates and highlights history of police racism
President Barack Obama has waded deep into an increasingly bitter race row by saying that a white police officer "acted stupidly" in arresting a renowned black Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates, after he forced the door of his own home.
The president's additional comments about a long history of police racism amid accusations that one of the country's most prominent African-American scholars was detained only because he is black has dampened enthusiasm for claims that Obama's election takes America "post-racial".
Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct after neighbours called the police when they saw him and a black taxi driver attempting to force the jammed front door of his home in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
What transpired is disputed but after producing identification to show that he was at his own house, a row ensued in which Gates demanded an officer's name and badge number and accused him of racial profiling. The police sergeant then arrested him for disorderly conduct.
"This is what happens to black men in America!" Gates yelled to a crowd outside his house as he was handcuffed. Charges were later dropped.
The president, responding to a question at a press conference about the arrest, said Gates was a friend and that he was uncertain what role race played in the dispute. But Obama condemned the police and said the incident is "a sign of how race remains a factor in this society".
"The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home," he said. "What I think we know, separate and apart from this incident, is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. And that's just a fact."
Obama had earlier lightened the mood by wondering what would happen if he were trying to break in to his own home.
"Here, I'd get shot," he said of the White House.
But Obama's comment was also taken as an observation about the assumptions white police officers make about black men in responding to reports of criminal behaviour.
Gates said he was pleased with the president's support.
"I think it was brilliant," he said in an interview with the broadcaster Tavis Smiley. "It is a great speech about race, and race relations, particularly between black people and white people at the beginning of the 21st century."
Gates said the arrest made him aware of how minorities are vulnerable "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman".
But the police officer at the centre of the row, Sergeant James Crowley, told a Boston radio station that he won't be apologising and that it is "disappointing that he [Obama] waded into what should be a local issue".
"I know what I did was right," he said.
Other officials were prepared to apologise to Gates, including the mayor of Cambridge, Denise Simmons, who called him to say that the arrest was "regrettable and unfortunate". The state governor, Deval Patrick, said he was troubled and upset over the incident.
Gates has won considerable support from other academics, some of whom have said that there is a mistaken belief among some white Americans that the country is moving beyond racial issues after Obama's election.
Gates agrees.
"I thought the whole idea that America was post-racial and post-black was laughable from the beginning. There is no more important event in the history of black people in America than the election of Barack Obama ... but that does not change the percentage of black men in prison, the percentage of black men harassed by racial profiling," he told the New America Foundation.
"There haven't been fundamental structural changes in America. There's been a very important symbolic change and that is the election of Barack Obama. But the only black people who truly live in a post-racial world in America all live in a very nice house on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue [the White House]."
Goggy,
I'm not going to quote all the stuff you wrote, but you are indicating that I'm a racist just because I called a black man, a black man? Are you serious? Do you not realise that's the whole point about the issue/discussion here?
I'm not going to quote all the stuff you wrote, but you are indicating that I'm a racist just because I called a black man, a black man? Are you serious? Do you not realise that's the whole point about the issue/discussion here?
There is an underlying tone to everyone's description.
Why is he a black man? You didn't refer to the policeman as a "white" or "Hispanic" policeman. Whilst you still see him as a black man how can you ever just consider him a 'man'?
Why is he a black man? You didn't refer to the policeman as a "white" or "Hispanic" policeman. Whilst you still see him as a black man how can you ever just consider him a 'man'?
Goggy, Goggy, look. These 3 pages of discussion are about the black prof making a fuss that he is unfairly investigated, because he is black. In this discussion we have here, the fact that he is black, is the centre point of this discussion. This whole 3 pages of discussion would not exist, if we're not allowed to observe that he is black.
You get the idea now?
You get the idea now?
McGame wrote:
Goggy, Goggy, look. These 3 pages of discussion are about the black prof making a fuss that he is unfairly investigated, because he is black. In this discussion we have here, the fact that he is black, is the centre point of this discussion. This whole 3 pages of discussion would not exist, if we're not allowed to observe that he is black.
You get the idea now?
You get the idea now?
Here's an idea, be less patronising in your posts.
The policeman referred to him as a 'black man' from the minute he walked into the house, he had labelled him and I suggest that pre-disposed him to assumptions that could be labelled as racism.
I didn't say you cannot discuss it, I'm saying there is a trend, shown by the police, yourself, generally a lot of people.
Quote:
The policeman referred to him as a 'black man' from the minute he walked into the house, he had labelled him and I suggest that pre-disposed him to assumptions that could be labelled as racism.
I don't see how referring someone as a 'black man' predispose him to racism. It's just a description. Just because he acknowledges that a person is black, has nothing to do with racism. If you pay attention to police reports in the news, you'll notice they use terms like 'a white man' just as many times to describe people they dealt with.
I don't understand why acknowledging someone as black is supposed to be racist. Perhaps you should stop thinking people are inferior just because they are black?
The truth of the situation is there are a bunch of limpwristed, PC handwringing reverse racists who desire nothing more than to forward an agenda based on the very thing they claim to be opposed to. While the cop may have been an a$$hole, identifying someone by their skin color is as basic as describing someone by their gender, age, or height.
Of course the fact Professor Gates' Brooks Brothers pants were hanging low off his a$$ exposing his Calvin Klein boxers gangbanger-style did nothing to help his cause. But that'd be a black man thang yo, y'all wouldn't undastan'.
Totem
Of course the fact Professor Gates' Brooks Brothers pants were hanging low off his a$$ exposing his Calvin Klein boxers gangbanger-style did nothing to help his cause. But that'd be a black man thang yo, y'all wouldn't undastan'.
Totem
McGame wrote:
Perhaps you should stop thinking people are inferior just because they are black?
Totem wrote:
identifying someone by their skin color is as basic as describing someone by their gender, age, or height.
When describing someone for sure, but should that feature become our overriding perception of who someone is?
When writing statements there is nothing wrong with
"a person who I later found out to be"
or
"a person whom I know as "
Fact is, the policemen didn't walk into a room and say "I saw Sgt <whotshisname> talking to a person with ginger/brown/blonde hair", because those things do not matter, as is the fact of his colour, it should not matter.
Because in the absence of any other pertinent information, the overiding identifying feature beyond a person's sex is their skin color or race. And even in the context of a more familiar acquaintance a person's race (described as being black or white for instance) clarifies who precisely you are talking about to the listener. Why is this? Because it is human nature to collect around yourself a circle of friends who are most like you, which incidentally usually includes a racial demographic component as well.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but today there is a politically correct induced stigma by vocalizing what is plainly obvious.
Totem
There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but today there is a politically correct induced stigma by vocalizing what is plainly obvious.
Totem
Goggy wrote:
Totem wrote:
Because in the absence of any other pertinent information, the overiding identifying feature beyond a person's sex is their skin color or race. And even in the context of a more familiar acquaintance a person's race (described as being black or white for instance) clarifies who precisely you are talking about to the listener. Why is this? Because it is human nature to collect around yourself a circle of friends who are most like you, which incidentally usually includes a racial demographic component as well.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but today there is a politically correct induced stigma by vocalizing what is plainly obvious.
Totem
There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but today there is a politically correct induced stigma by vocalizing what is plainly obvious.
Totem
You're still referring to a description, which is unnecessary, he was easily identified. If he'd have run off then sure, the colour of his skin is pertinent information.
Can you believe this guy is a professor at Harvard? Is this "professor" the result of Harvards affirmative action program? Inquiring minds want to know.
publiusvarus wrote:
Can you believe this guy is a professor at Harvard? Is this "professor" the result of Harvards affirmative action program? Inquiring minds want to know.
He's the head of the African-American Studies Department. Smash is right--he's the guy you call when Cornel West isn't available.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
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