Perhaps, but that goes both ways.
Crowley, too, should have "known better".
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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Omegavegeta wrote:
Perhaps, but that goes both ways.
STOP PICKING SIDES!!!
watew wrote:
When you act like a douchebag to cops, they'll arrest you.
This comment just proves that you have neither read nor understood the preceding 12 pages. Come back when you have.
Omegavegeta wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
It's not one or the other here. We shouldn't be picking sides. Gates acted like a complete idiot and should be ashamed of himself. Period. That fact is completely separate to whatever one may think of the police officer, yet it appears that most people can't do this. They go out of their way to blame Crowley for anything and everything in an apparent desire to use that to excuse the behavior of Gates. And I find that both amusing and slightly disheartening.
I find it both amusing & disheartening that by "not picking sides" you've decided that this whole thing is Gates' fault & can find no issue with a Police Officer arresting a man for disorderly after the cop knew the whole thing was a case of mistaken identity.
It's amazing how you can quote me and still fail to actually read what you just quoted. I did not say that the "whole thing was Gate's fault". I simply said that regardless of what you think of Crowley's decision to arrest him for disorderly conduct, Gates acted like a complete idiot and should be ashamed of himself. See. It's even in the bit you quoted.
As a secondary point, I observed that it's disheartening (and amusing in a "gee this is stereotypical" kinda of way) that so many people seem to believe that by finding fault in Crowley's actions, it somehow retroactively excuses Gate's behavior. It doesn't.
How did you fail to grasp that? I was pretty clear...
Quote:
I'm certainly not blaming Crowley for anything before the point that it was established he no longer needed to be there.
Maybe you aren't, but a whole lot of people seemed intent on insisting that Gates couldn't have been such an a-hole unless there was something done to him first. Um... But there wasn't, was there? The outright assumptions of racism on the part of the police, the witness and the woman who called 911 speaks volumes, not about racism on the part of the police but racism on the part of those posters. So excuse me if I'm a little sensitive when someone insists on ignoring any mention of Gate's actions and instead turns it around to only talking about Crowley's.
Crowley's action was the *last* event. If the only thing he did wrong was arrest Gate's, then who's "fault" was everything leading up to that point? Hmmm?
Quote:
After that, he should have turned "cop mode" off, apologized for the mistake (even though it wasn't his), & left.
Yes and no. A police officer can't just leave. He has to "close the scene". This means he has to take statements from everyone there. He has to get the names of everyone, including all the officers who were present. He has to fill out some paperwork and make sure he's got notes on everything that happened. Cops do this so that they aren't relying on memory to write up reports on the several dozen such calls they may have had that day. He can't just leave.
So. You're trying to wrap things up, and someone is standing in his yard yelling at you and calling you names. What do you do? Again. He can't just leave. His job is not over until he has collected all of the information he needs to file his report. That's why Gates was arrested. Not because of a case of mistaken identity. Crowley knew exactly who he was at that moment. He knew he was the owner of the home. And he knew that Gates was continuing to disrupt his ability to do his job and refused to stop when warned.
Could he have "turned the other cheek"? Could he have given Gates more time to cool down? Sure. But the fact that he didn't doesn't make his action "wrong". He was well within his authority to act as he did. You seem to think that the cops should be paragons of patience with every single person they encounter. And I suppose there are some cops who try that. But after the first thousand times you run into someone being a jerk like Gates was, you just warn them once and then arrest them if they don't stop.
Let's be fair here. All Gates had to do was stop being a jerk. I think that's a lot more reasonable to expect from someone than insisting that the other guy put up with him being a jerk.
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Sure, Gates was being an @#%^ to Crowley. But Crowley let it get to him & arrested him on a trumped up disorderly charge for NO other reason than to be an @#%^ back.
No other reason?
I would assume he did it so that he could finish his job and allow the other half dozen or so police officers who were stuck there until that is finished to get back to doing their jobs. As I pointed out earlier, if you choose to interpret every action by police as some brutish exercise of authority, then that's all you'll see...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Gbaji wrote:
It's amazing how you can quote me and still fail to actually read what you just quoted. I did not say that the "whole thing was Gate's fault". I simply said that regardless of what you think of Crowley's decision to arrest him for disorderly conduct, Gates acted like a complete idiot and should be ashamed of himself. See. It's even in the bit you quoted.
Ya. You still have yet to mention anywhere that Crowley did anything wrong, at all. I wasn't there, you weren't there, but we both believe that at some point Gates got pissed & Crowley arrested him. You, & most white people for that matter, find no fault in that. While I, most of the lefties of the board, the CPD, the City of Cambridge, & most black people do.
Again, we can agree to disagree.
Quote:
As a secondary point, I observed that it's disheartening (and amusing in a "gee this is stereotypical" kinda of way) that so many people seem to believe that by finding fault in Crowley's actions, it somehow retroactively excuses Gate's behavior. It doesn't.
How did you fail to grasp that? I was pretty clear...
How did you fail to grasp that? I was pretty clear...
I don't, at all. I just disagree with you.
You see, I've dealt with ******* cops before trying to charge me with petty **** because I mouthed off to them. I think Republicans should understand this more than most, but in case you need a reminder: It is every American's right to be an Asshole.
It is not an arrestable offense. Now, a cop can try and arrest you for it (Disorderly conduct, "Protective" custody, et. al), but very rarely are they able to get those charges to stick.
Thus, Disorderly (&PC) are the tools of last resort for any cop who wants to mess with you, not for any legal reason, not for any reason that falls uner "serving & protecting", but for the sole reason that they can.
It's a **** move & given the circumstances, Crowley shouldn't have done it.
And lol @ the whole "
Quote:
I would assume he did it so that he could finish his job and allow the other half dozen or so police officers who were stuck there until that is finished to get back to doing their jobs."
"I was called to the address about a possible B&E & established that it was the resident returning home from a trip & struggling entering his own home."
-would have been a hell of a lot easier to put on a report than all the crap Crowley's gone through since arresting him, don't you think?
Hindsight 20/20 & all.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Relevant video is relevant.
Well maybe. Have a look at this video from the Guardian website. It shows 2 protesters being arrested. I'll leave you to make up your own minds about the reason for the arrest, but I think it punctuates a point made earlier in this thread about the lack of humility the police seem to display within their position and the policing task they undertake.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/jun/21/fit-watch-kingsnorth-arrests
WS
Well maybe. Have a look at this video from the Guardian website. It shows 2 protesters being arrested. I'll leave you to make up your own minds about the reason for the arrest, but I think it punctuates a point made earlier in this thread about the lack of humility the police seem to display within their position and the policing task they undertake.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/jun/21/fit-watch-kingsnorth-arrests
WS
During the RNC in 2004 in NYC, there were mass arrests (although mostly non violent) of pretty much any & all protesters there. They also go some journalists.
Relevant Video
Now, to be fair, MOST of these arrests were non violent. The cops would literally push the entire crowd up onto the side walk, load em' up, ziptie them, and load them into paddy wagons.
Now, as Americans we have a right to protest. While there were arrests made during the DNC in Boston, the protesters here were allowed to do just that.
Furthermore, what's interesting is how the NYPD, coordinating with the federal government via the Patriot act that targeted & investigated such domestic protest groups (Like Anti-War people, who despite what some on the Right think, are not terrorists), tracked these groups beforehand & during the arrest photographed & fingerprinted every single one of them.
It wasn't until last year that the protesters actually won in court & were able to get most of those records destroyed. Link.
Asshole cops + Big Brother =/= Freedom.
Edited, Aug 6th 2009 8:48am by Omegavegeta
Relevant Video
Now, to be fair, MOST of these arrests were non violent. The cops would literally push the entire crowd up onto the side walk, load em' up, ziptie them, and load them into paddy wagons.
Now, as Americans we have a right to protest. While there were arrests made during the DNC in Boston, the protesters here were allowed to do just that.
Furthermore, what's interesting is how the NYPD, coordinating with the federal government via the Patriot act that targeted & investigated such domestic protest groups (Like Anti-War people, who despite what some on the Right think, are not terrorists), tracked these groups beforehand & during the arrest photographed & fingerprinted every single one of them.
It wasn't until last year that the protesters actually won in court & were able to get most of those records destroyed. Link.
Asshole cops + Big Brother =/= Freedom.
Edited, Aug 6th 2009 8:48am by Omegavegeta
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
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