Military doesn't back ObamaFollow

Now that has brightened my day! I just need to get Annabella to say something nice about me now, and my whole life will be a box of fluffy ducks!



I'm off to the park with my boy now. He's off to the UK, India and the US with 'her indoors' for 7 weeks, and other than all the time I'm gonna have to surf, play mmo's, watch movies and generally walk around with a can of beer in one hand, a spliff in the other and my underpants on my head, I'm gonna REALLY miss them both

You're confusing "evidence" with "proof". There is quite a bit of evidence that he wasn't born in Hawaii, not the least of which is the tape recording of his grandmother saying that she was present for his birth in Mombassa. That particular tape can be found via search of the internet if you wish. By itself, it might just be a fraud. However, the man who was present in her home asking the questions has signed an affidavit and filed testimony with the Supreme Court attesting to the accuracy of the claim.

He risks perjury if he faked this. In legal terms, this is most definitely "evidence". It's also pretty critical, since to my knowledge there is not a single signed statement under risk of perjury by *anyone* attesting to the fact that Obama was born in the US. I've pointed out in previous threads on this subject that the lack of any such sworn statement means that we can't assume that one exists or that anyone knows what it says. Everything on that subject is speculation and assumption.

In legal terms, you use such sworn statements exactly because the person making them cannot lie or mislead without risking jail time. Any statement not in such a format has zero legal weight. So, we have a tape recording of Obama's grandmother stating that he was born in Kenya, and sworn/signed statements that the tape, source, recording, etc were authentic and are what they appear to be.


On the other side, we have what? An short form of his certificate, which does not establish birth place legally. A non-sworn statement by the Secretary of Health in Hawaii merely saying that there was a birth certificate on file (but not that it confirms that he was born in Hawaii). And a glib response by a spokesperson of said Secretary merely affirming a question about whether she meant that he was born there (also not legally binding in any way).


You see why the "evidence" supports the "Let's see his birth certificate" side of this? You have to understand that none of the cases were dismissed because of a lack of evidence that insufficient proof of natural born citizenship had been provided, but merely because the individuals brining the claim could not show direct harm from that lack of proof.

As I said the last time, now that he's president, more people will be able to come forward and show harm from his current position. The Court will have to respond to this, and will almost certainly eventually demand to see the full birth documentation of President Obama. It's the only way to end this issue.



They have support, but the point isn't whether one side can prove it's right. The point is whether or not there is sufficient doubt. The burden of proof is on Obama to show that he meets the constitutional qualifications to be President. All the challenges and dismissals are show. At the end of the day, he will have to prove this.

They don't have to prove they're right. They only have to prove that he hasn't proven They're wrong. That's an entirely different prospect.

Springsteen's "Glory Days" is rattling around in my head now.

Dude, that's a 2005 Altima!

With a CD changer!

Gbaji has been availing himself of Niobia's internet lawyer.

I'm almost certain that no one in the GOP punditry/political circles think that Obama's citizen is a question. It's a deliberate attempt to infer that Obama isn't one of us, he's one of them. "Them" being nefarious outsider. It's a way to be racist while avoiding charges of racism.

Yes. Of course, his passport records are sealed as well. So we don't know what they say. Um... And it's still irrelevant because a passport only tells us someone's citizenship. No one is doubting that he is a US citizen. We're questioning whether his birth circumstances make him a "natural born citizen".

Swartzenegger has a US passport. It does not qualify him to be President.



Again. Just being a US citizen is not sufficient. See the example above. There are a whole lot of people who are US citizens but are *not* qualified to be President due to the circumstances of their birth.



Yes. But there is only *one* thing in our country which makes a distinction between being a US citizen and being a natural born US citizen. And that's being president. Thus, none of those other things would ever need to know for sure where he was born. Just having a US certification of birth is sufficient. And from that you get a drivers license and Social Security Card. And from that you can get a passport.

Do you see how someone could easily go their entire life without ever having to prove that they were a natural born citizen?

All of those things only require that he prove he is a US citizen to acquire. Thus, having them does not prove he's a natural born US citizen. I explained the difference to you last time as well, but apparently you forgot.




No. I said that no one has ever checked to see if his birth certificate verifies that he is a natural born US citizen. Those are completely different things.

How many times do I have to explain this? There is nothing else which requires this. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Ergo, no other document he's obtained along the way proves anything with regard to whether he's a natural born citizen. The only way to verify that is to have someone look at all of this birth records and provide written testimony under oath that those records show he was born in the US.

Nothing else proves this. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact.



How about you stop eternally forgetting key bits of the issue like the difference between a regular citizen and a natural born citizen? It should automatically make your position suspect if you feel you have to keep twisting the facts around like that...

Edited, Jul 15th 2009 6:49pm by gbaji

Well. There's a difference between an "absence of evidence", and "inconvenient evidence". There is evidence in this case, it just happens to point in a direction which many don't want to go, so they pretend it doesn't exist.


More relevantly, as I pointed out before, the burden of proof should lie with Obama. The public should not have to prove he isn't a natural born citizen. He should have to prove he is.

This is so inherently intrinsic to how we determine everything in our world around us that it's startling that anyone would insist otherwise. In every aspect of our lives we accept without question the assumption that if you want to qualify for something, gain access to something, or get someone else to do something for you, *you* must provide whatever qualifying bits are required. You would never go into a job interview and insist that the interviewer must prove you aren't qualified for the job in order to not give it to you, right? I mean, that would be ridiculous... Right?

Sure, except he did.

1) He provided a document that asserted that he was born in the states.

2) based on the links you provided last time, that document is required by law to reflect the long form

ergo the long form will state that he was born in the states. That's the official document that you want, you already know it's there, it's been sworn to. It also follows all normal regulations and rules, that's been sworn to. If it follows the regulations that means that the short form is indeed correct. The only way this is not the case is if the government of Hawaii is lying. outright.

You make the case that maybe it won't list a hospital he was born at, indicating there is some minute chance that he was born elsewhere and then his mother claimed that he was born in the states. Maybe, although that's in the conspiracy crazy zone. However, even if that is the case, it doesn't matter, as according to the document, which is the final authority, he was born in the states.

He was asked for evidence, he provided evidence, and after that, if someone comes along screaming for publicity, I'd ignore it too.

Let's Learn about Birthers!

This is Orly Taitz.



Here's some fun facts about her:

- There is no record of her immigration from Russia, arrival in USA or naturalization, although records for those events are publicly available for the years from her birth through present day.

- When she registered her 3rd child, born in the USA, she said her maiden name as Auerbuch instead of Averbuch. Maybe both are fake names, because there is no record of her in the official list of Soviet Citizens from 1960-1987.

- She claims got her dental degree from Hebrew University in Israel. Was that before or after her “escape” from the Soviet Union? Hebrew U does not have a record of her on their Alumni list. A fake dental degree explains the dozens of dental malpractice suits filed against her.

- Her unaccredited online law school required no prerequisites or LSAT.

- There is no record of her in the list of California Registered voters.

- She claims she is also a Realtor but her license was revoked years ago.

- She calls herself a Constitutional law expert, but besides the current "birther" stuff she'd never had a case before, other than defending herself against malpractice.

Also, this ******* Cook that filed suit via Ms. Birther got a reply, that stated:

"The Commanding General of SOCCENT (United States Special Operations Command Central) has determined that he does not want the services of Major Cook, and has revoked his deployment orders."

And, subsequently, was fired from his civilian job with a defense contractor for getting into a "nutty and crazy" situation. And furthermore, an Army CENTCOM spokesman rejected as false claims that the revocation validated Cook's claims:

"This in no way validates any of the outlandish claims made by Maj. Cook or his attorney. The idea that this validates those charges about the president's fitness for office is simply false."

Can you see why not only us lefties, but the moderates & MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY think you're all crazy?

But keep it up, it's hilarious.

Sure. Get this guy and his lawyer to kidnap the President and extradite him to Costa Rica.

She has eyes like a Muppet.

Know what's weird? Since he stopped being President, I stopped being angry every time I saw W on TV. Seriously, watching him sit down & talk in totally relaxed settings, where he doesn't have to watch what he says, almost made him seem cool.

Not Obama cool, mind you. Cool like when W smoked up Harold & Kumar in the sequel.