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#252 Aug 18 2009 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Oh. And there have been and are at the moment proposed bills to define a legal process for doing this. I don't have to push for it. How many of you on the Left would support such a thing? After all, it's pretty much the Dems who keep blocking such legislation (and are doing so now). If this is the right solution, why is it being opposed?

I think it's a great thing, something that should have been in place.
Just don't expect it to be applied retroactively.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#253 Aug 18 2009 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
How many of you on the Left would support such a thing? After all, it's pretty much the Dems who keep blocking such legislation (and are doing so now). If this is the right solution, why is it being opposed?


"We" (just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make the either on the left or a liberal) don't have a hive mind, idiot. Ask them why they oppose it, not those of us who asked why you didn't just do that in the first place. It was never about Obama, after all.

Edited, Aug 18th 2009 7:17pm by CBD
#254 Aug 18 2009 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
How many of you on the Left would support such a thing?

I'm pretty neutral on it. I think the current system in place is just fine but, if it passed, it wouldn't be the most useless thing Congress has done. I don't actively support it but I wouldn't send angry letters to my Congresswoman about it either.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#255 Aug 18 2009 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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CBD wrote:
gbaji wrote:
How many of you on the Left would support such a thing? After all, it's pretty much the Dems who keep blocking such legislation (and are doing so now). If this is the right solution, why is it being opposed?


"We" (just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make the either on the left or a liberal) don't have a hive mind, idiot. Ask them why they oppose it, not those of us who asked why you didn't just do that in the first place. It was never about Obama, after all.


Why should I be the one to ask though? Various members of my party have attempted to pass about a half dozen bills in the last decade to clarify those exact requirements. They have tried to "do that in the first place", as you say. They've been blocked mostly by opposition from the Dems, usually with some implied racial or anti-immigrant argument. I don't think it's unreasonable to put the blame/responsibility for this on those who elect the representatives who oppose such legislation. Certainly it's absurd for people who vote Democrat to insist that it's somehow on my head that such legislation has not been passed...



And it's "about Obama" because the lack of said legislation is why this issue is in front of us in the first place. Had the Obama campaign and the Democrat party been honest about dealing with this instead of blocking it legally (both legislatively and with legal games after the fact), no one would be even talking about it. As it is, while I know many of you love to dismiss the whole issue (with a suitably obnoxious title like "birthers" to boot), there are enough legitimate legal questions here to warrant a closer look. It's not going to go away just because some people don't want to deal with it. Had sufficient laws been passed ahead of time, we'd all know exactly where the law stands and where the boundaries are. There would be no doubt as to the outcome based on various circumstances. It's the lack of legislation, murky facts surrounding Obama's use of citizenship, and questions about the circumstance of his birth, compounded by the incredibly vague statements made about those circumstances which has fanned the flames of this issue.


Burying your head in the sand and just hoping the issue will go away tends not to work in politics. Yet, oddly, that appears to be the *exact* approach the Obama administration and the Democrats, and a whole ton of supporters have taken. It's really really dumb because they are creating the very thing they should wish to avoid. The longer this goes on, the more mainstream will become the idea that no one would work that hard to hide something unless there was something to it. Pat answers and assumption isn't going to cut it...
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#256 Aug 18 2009 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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Burying your head in the sand and just hoping the issue will go away tends not to work in politics.


Smiley: laugh

We should make a website for Gbaji soundbites, it'd be hilarious.

Edited, Aug 19th 2009 2:08am by Kavekk
#257 Aug 18 2009 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:


We should make a website for Gbaji soundbites, it'd be hilarious.



Almost as funny as this one?
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#258 Aug 18 2009 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Various members of my party have attempted to pass about a half dozen bills in the last decade to clarify those exact requirements. They have tried to "do that in the first place", as you say.

Really? I went all the way back to the 100th Congress and found exactly one bill about this listed on the Thomas.loc website. HR 1503* introduced this past March. I was using the search string "birth certificate" though so if you know of a better string or want to link to some of these bills, I'd be happy to see them.

For what it's worth, there was a whole lot of legislation proposed in the 104th Congress regarding birth certificates but it was all about immigration reform and welfare reform.

*Edit: Yes, I know that's a link to OpenCongress. I started there and went to Thomas.loc when I saw OC's search only went back three congressional sessions.

Edited, Aug 18th 2009 9:19pm by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#259 Aug 18 2009 at 6:38 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Various members of my party have attempted to pass about a half dozen bills in the last decade to clarify those exact requirements. They have tried to "do that in the first place", as you say.

Really? I went all the way back to the 100th Congress and found exactly one bill about this listed on the Thomas.loc website. HR 1503* introduced this past March. I was using the search string "birth certificate" though so if you know of a better string or want to link to some of these bills, I'd be happy to see them.


How about "natural born citizen" or "presidential qualification"? I stumbled across S2128 prior to HR1503 several posts ago. Also ran into some article which said that a dozen bills had been proposed since 2001. I'll freely admit to not having gone to find all of them, but I see no reason to assume that the article was false.


Um... I will toss out a comment though, which forms some of a response as to why there isn't more action on this in Congress. Note, the label "Birther Bill" on HR 1503. Maybe instead of telling me to get my representatives to write a law like this, you guys could tell your "side" to stop being pricks?

Just a thought...
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#260 Aug 18 2009 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Maybe instead of telling me to get my representatives to write a law like this, you guys could tell your "side" to stop being pricks?

I could but, again, I have nothing vested in this to bother worrying about it. OpenCongress is an independently run site anyway so me sending them a strongly worded letter wouldn't do much to get your bills passed.

S2128 says nothing about providing evidence of birth status, it merely clarifies who is a "natural born citizen". No other hits came up for "natural born citizen" or "presidential qualification" aside from a bunch of bills suggesting that anyone who has been in the country for 25-35 years should be eligible to run for president.
Quote:
Also ran into some article which said that a dozen bills had been proposed since 2001. I'll freely admit to not having gone to find all of them, but I see no reason to assume that the article was false.

Given the lack of evidence despite my search, I have no reason to assume that it's accurate, either.

Edited, Aug 18th 2009 9:57pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#261 Aug 18 2009 at 7:05 PM Rating: Default
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We should make a website for Gbaji soundbites, it'd be hilarious


Or we could just post Gems like this from you Kavekk......

In this post you attempt to explain how evil capitalism is because you watched a history channel program on Tesla.

It's just to adorable.


Quote:
Prepare to be enlightened, o grasshopper.

Capitalism does not reward the most productive. That you don't understand this is hilarious, because it's so obviously not the case. Nikola Tesla was an obsessive workaholic, and thus highly productive, and impacted society for the better far more than your average capitalist. Yet he died in the gutter because he wasn't very good at working the capitalist system, and that is the skill that the capitalist system rewards you for above all others. It's one of the system's many, many flaws


Edited, Aug 18th 2009 11:32pm by ThiefX
#262 Aug 18 2009 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
In this post you attempt to explain how evil capitalism is becasue you watched a history channel program on Tesla.

It's just to adorable.

ITT: ThiefX tries to grab some reflected awesome by stealing my phrases.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#263 Aug 18 2009 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
The problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money. " Margaret Thatcher.


Anyone who holds Thatcher up as a beacon of wisdom, should not be surprised to find themselves and their asinine opinions regarded with utter contempt.
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#264 Aug 18 2009 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Certainly it's absurd for people who vote Democrat to insist that it's somehow on my head that such legislation has not been passed...


Look. I personally don't give two sh*ts about any president showing a birth certificate. If this was happening four years ago, I'd roll my eyes and say "Who gives a fuck?" and so would you. Don't lump me with everyone else because you're too stupid and immature to handle differing, non-polarized opinions.

That being said, I also don't care about the legislation. I brought it up to show that you were lying out your *** when you say it isn't about Obama. That's a new development for, what, the third thread on the topic, months after the original? Did you realize how dumb you look and now you're trying to cover it up?

As Joph has shown though, you're still full of dramatic sh*t anyway.

Edited, Aug 19th 2009 12:11am by CBD
#265 Aug 18 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
Gbaji wrote:
there are enough legitimate legal questions here to warrant a closer look.


Then why has everyone with any sort of respect in the Republican party dropped this issue & let Orly take the reigns?

I would think, since this is such an important issue to you guys, Kenneth Starr would be all over it.

Why isn't he, then?

Must have better things to do, I guess...

Either that or Factcheck.org's short form is good enough for him!
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#266 Aug 19 2009 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The only way Obama could loose in 2012 is if he passes anything close to this godawful healthcare bill.


Getting more done for the well being of american society in four years than any president in my lifetime has done in eight? Dude, I will ******* take it.
#267 Aug 19 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
We should make a website for Gbaji soundbites, it'd be hilarious


Or we could just post Gems like this from you Kavekk......

In this post you attempt to explain how evil capitalism is because you watched a history channel program on Tesla.

It's just to adorable.

Quote:
Prepare to be enlightened, o grasshopper.

Capitalism does not reward the most productive. That you don't understand this is hilarious, because it's so obviously not the case. Nikola Tesla was an obsessive workaholic, and thus highly productive, and impacted society for the better far more than your average capitalist. Yet he died in the gutter because he wasn't very good at working the capitalist system, and that is the skill that the capitalist system rewards you for above all others. It's one of the system's many, many flaws


I don't watch the history channel. I don't believe in ghosts, zombies or vampires, so none of its programmes appeal. You're right, though, what I said back then is pretty hilarious.

It's funny because it's true.
#268 Aug 19 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
there are enough legitimate legal questions here to warrant a closer look.


Then why has everyone with any sort of respect in the Republican party dropped this issue & let Orly take the reigns?

I would think, since this is such an important issue to you guys, Kenneth Starr would be all over it.

Why isn't he, then?

Must have better things to do, I guess...

Either that or Factcheck.org's short form is good enough for him!
If only there was just a little bit of empirical evidence that he didn't travel back in time to force Alvin T. Onaka at gunpoint to produce a false birth certificate...
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#269 Aug 19 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
I don't watch the history channel. I don't believe in ghosts, zombies or vampires, so none of its programmes appeal.

Huh. I rarely see these shows on History. This evening it's showing Battles BC, American Eats, Mega Disasters, Colossal Construction, Ice Road Truckers and...oh, I do see two episodes of MonsterQuest. The Real Cujo, which might fit your criteria, and Suburban Lions.

If you want to see ghosts, vampires or zombies you might want to check out the inspiring production values of the Science Fiction channel, otherwise known as SyFy (for some odd reason they decided to rename the channel after a venereal disease, which I guess is appropriate).
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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