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Obama Hires Dog AttorneyFollow

#1 Jun 29 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Sub-Default
Quote:
Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who pioneered efforts to design regulation around the ways people behave, will be named the Obama administration's regulatory czar, a transition official said Wednesday.



Quote:
It oversees regulations throughout the government, from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Obama aides have said the job will be crucial as the new administration overhauls financial-services regulations, attempts to pass universal health care and tries to forge a new approach to controlling emissions of greenhouse gases.



This is what this nut wrote in his book

Quote:
A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients’ behalf.”



This is the judgement of the leader you liberal democrats elected. Don't **** your dog off some govn appointed attorney will be there to represent the dog against you.

WOW!


#2 Jun 29 2009 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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I think this is more of a humane issue (animal abuse), than it is over giving Fido his ******* treats. Y'know, groups other than white males deserve to be treated humanely (I know that's hard to grasp)

Edited, Jun 29th 2009 10:43am by SirElephant
#3 Jun 29 2009 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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I, for one, welcome our new canine overlords.
#4 Jun 29 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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SirElephant wrote:
I think this is more of a humane issue (animal abuse), than it is over giving Fido his @#%^ing treats. Y'know, groups other than white males deserve to be treated humanely (I know that's hard to grasp)
Pretty much.
Sustein wrote:
“Laws designed to protect animals against cruelty and abuse should be amended or interpreted to give a private cause of action against those who violate them, so as to allow private people to supplement the efforts of public prosecutors.”
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5 Jun 29 2009 at 6:48 AM Rating: Default
Elephant,

So who are going to be the dog gestapo determining whether someone is treating the dog humanely? Can the dog be called on to testify?

Man these liberals are f*cking crazy.



#6 Jun 29 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Default
Jophed,

Quote:
so as to allow private people to supplement the efforts of public prosecutors


So if you think your neighbor is mistreating their pet you can call the dog gestapo and have them hauled into court. Gotcha.

#7 Jun 29 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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In Australia there are laws against this type of thing:

Screenshot


Over here the RSPCA is responsible for seeing that farm and pet animals are treated humanely. But they don't get around to all cases. People can report suspect incidents to the RSPCA. I presume this idea of his is another way of people being able to intervene on behalf of clearly ill-treated animals, in the cases where the relevant authorities are not keeping up.

You might be interested to know that this sort of thing used to go on in Medieval courts. Lawyers would go in to bat for hives of bees, or a heard of pigs, when a farmer's or a village's practices disturbed their food sources or shelter too much. In many ways those cases were very early examples of environmental or humane-treatment-of-animals laws.
#8 Jun 29 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's pretty obvious whether or not an animal is being treated humanely. There are already standards set in place for determining the health of an animal, and owners can be already be prosecuted for abusing animals so that they below this line of well-being.

All this does is enable third-parties to easier prosecute animal abusers. I don't see what's so @#%^ing crazy about this. It doesn't take a Liberal to want an abuse-free world, it just takes a sane person who isn't a totally tard.

Also, since when can someone make one complaint and haul someone into court? Use your brain, Virus. Most likely, an investigator will come in and see if the animal is abused or not. What you're missing is the fact that this just enhances the ease of finding and prosecuting abusers, it's not something totally brand new.

Edited, Jun 29th 2009 10:55am by SirElephant
#9 Jun 29 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Huh, didn't realize he had come up with two theories I happen to like quite a bit: availability cascades, and cyber balkanization.

Availability cascading is the phenomenon of ideological snowballing. It explains a few things - why social theories like idiocracy catch on quickly, and why talking points work. A buzz catches on; everyone seems to be in agreement; and it's tempting to just accept the common opinion as fact and forgo analysis altogether.

Cyber balkanization is the phenomenon of surrounding yourself with those who agree with you, specifically on the Internet. Gbaji argues that this happens here, with us lefties. He may be right; it's hardly limited to here and now, though. It takes effort to consider opposing view points.
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#10 Jun 29 2009 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
So if you think your neighbor is mistreating their pet you can call the dog gestapo and have them hauled into court. Gotcha.
If I think my neighbor's lawn is too tall, I can haul them into court over it. What's your point?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#11REDACTED, Posted: Jun 29 2009 at 7:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) elephant,
#12 Jun 29 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Cyber balkanization is the phenomenon of surrounding yourself with those who agree with you, specifically on the Internet. Gbaji argues that this happens here, with us lefties. He may be right; it's hardly limited to here and now, though. It takes effort to consider opposing view points.

I greatly regret that there are not more Muslim identified posters on this site during this particular time in history.
#13 Jun 29 2009 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Next thing you'll be suing pig-farmers because pigs wallow in their own filth. How about if a horse is sick and has lost weight due to that fact? How about a dog with the mange who is actually taking treatment?
Those sound like some easily won lawsuits. Hell, they'd probably be so easily won that you could counter-sue the other party for costs.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#14REDACTED, Posted: Jun 29 2009 at 7:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#15 Jun 29 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
Elephant,

So who are going to be the dog gestapo determining whether someone is treating the dog humanely? Can the dog be called on to testify?

Man these liberals are f*cking crazy.


Is it really insane to make legislation that gives a living thing the right to humane treatment? Really?
#16 Jun 29 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:


When does it end?

When the dog lawyer sings?
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#17 Jun 29 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
Elephant,

So who are going to be the dog gestapo determining whether someone is treating the dog humanely? Can the dog be called on to testify?

Man these liberals are f*cking crazy.


Is it really insane to make legislation that gives a living thing the right to humane treatment? Really?
It can be. If you don't carefully define what is a living thing worth humane treatment and what is 'humane'. Without which, windshields would all be jailed for mistreatment of insects.
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#18 Jun 29 2009 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
How about a neighbor calling the police because they see you with a beer washing your car?

How about smoking a cig in your front yard and having the police called on you for pollution?

How about having the police called on you for letting your car heat up on a freezing jan day?
How about it? Give it a try and see how it works for you.
Quote:
Oh and shouldn't you be more concerned with the shooting gallery chicago has become?
Should I be? You realize I don't actually live in the city, right?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#19REDACTED, Posted: Jun 29 2009 at 7:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Tulip,
#20 Jun 29 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
publiusvarus wrote:
Tulip,

Quote:
Is it really insane to make legislation that gives a living thing the right to humane treatment? Really?


What's insane is giving animals human rights.


They don't have human rights. They do, however, have the right not to be starved, beaten, or neglected. And the legislation you cited simply gives people the right to prosecute on behalf of a mistreated animal.

Nice try, though. Smiley: rolleyes
#21 Jun 29 2009 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I read most of the relevant chapter from the book in question and can't say I'm too distraught. His main points seem to be that:

(A) Enforcement of animal cruelty laws are entirely up to public prosecutors, meaning that cases go overlooked or ignored due to caseloads (in this and other areas). This could be reduced by allowing private citizens to bring suit in cases where the violation of the law was unambiguous (his word). There's a question to be raised about how you determine the unambiguous nature but we're discussing theory here, not creating legislation.

(B) Cruelty laws are spread across the books and jurisdictions instead of being centrally codified. Laws that prohibit me from starving my cat are completely different from the laws prohibiting starving a dairy cow. The laws prohibiting starving a dairy cow are completely different from the laws prohibiting starving a lab rhesus monkey. In fact, if a cop came to my house to remove my starving cat, he'd have no jurisdiction to remove my starving dairy cow. Even without changing the threshold for "abuse", changes need to be made to make the law evenly enforcable.

Sunstein, in starting the chapter, actually states that he isn't for massive overhauls or expansions to animal rights but rather making moderate changes which would allow the existing laws to be properly and evenly enforced.

But, yeah... "dog attorney". I guess that soundbites better for the simple-minded.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Jun 29 2009 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
But, yeah... "dog attorney". I guess that soundbites better for the simple-minded.


Which brings us back around to availability cascades! It's the circle of liiiiiiiiiiiiife.

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#23REDACTED, Posted: Jun 29 2009 at 7:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#24 Jun 29 2009 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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He'll be part of the EPA.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

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#25 Jun 29 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Well with his new position it won't be just theories he's pushing he'll be part of the executive dept.
He won't be writing legislation, either. But this ignores the point that I'm not against what he proposes, just admitting that for purposes of the book it's not an airtight bit of law but rather thoughts on how animal cruelty laws can be improved/enforced.
Quote:
Do you really want private citizens in charge of bringing suits against their neighbors because they don't think they're treating their pets well enough?
In an unambiguous case? Sure.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#26 Jun 29 2009 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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I think the suing culture that exists in the US is absurd, and I'm very glad that it doesn't exist up here in Canada. I don't really understand the reason for this in that a neighbor can just call an inspector to see a mistreated animal right now couldn't he? Why make it into a lawsuit?

Perhaps there is no mechanism to do this right now, and I guess that would need to be fixed, but imo perpetuating the suing culture isn't a good answer.
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