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The problem in some areas is not public education as such, but poverty.

Also: students who do not graduate with their class often finish high school later or earn an equivalent diploma such as a GED.

Jophed,

How do you expect public healthcare to work for everyone when public education doesn't work for the majority of people? And here I thought you cared about most of the peoples healthcare.

Nah, it's cool, Canada's navy is faily lame.

We bought some leaky subs from the UK a few years ago. I think we might have boats too.

Relevant to nothing, me & the household went to the Chicago Museum of Science & Industry this past weekend where we saw, among other things, U-505 which is completely housed within the building (they expanded and built the new wing around the sub). Even the wife, a woman of no great interest in things military, thought that it was pretty fucking cool.


Click to embiggen

The problem with public schools isn't the schools. It's the @#%^ing children. Children who don't care about obeying their parents and doing their home work, don't bother to bring their basic school supplies home to do homework, don't want to do curriculum enrichment things like after school clubs and sports because they want to be home starting fires in the back alley or stealing XBox games from their neighbors. US educators hit a brick wall because all their fancy educational theories fall apart when you have to teach a child that has neither internal nor external motivation, since they have never given a sh*t about their performance in school or anything else their parents support.

You can rant on and on about the failure of American public schools, but the real fail and the blame lies with the failure of American children. But OH NOES we cannot blame the children because most American adults don't want anyone to know their children are uncontrollable and nobody wants to blame children for their failures.

EDIT: Isn't the blame game fun?

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 12:16pm by Ahkuraj

I know you're trying hard to be clever but all those things are related to parenting.

Like everything there are multiple problems. Parents not taking a role in their children's lives and education is widely believed to be linked to a child underachieving in school. At the same time, the most involved parents in the world won't have an effect if a child doesn't care or is otherwise distracted. Drugs, gangs, or other distractions can nullify any effect the parents have. Finally, if a school is unprepared for its students, the students have less of a chance to succeed.

That said, in any great environment some students will not succeed, and even in a poor urban school riddled with violence and drugs some students will rise to the top. What needs to be done is to realize that ALL of these factors come into play. For the part of the government, the schools need to be equipped to provide good teachers and a safe environment. Parents need to be aware of their influence and effect on their offspring. And students need to be aware that high school is not just a place to kill time, but is a test to get into a good college or vocational school that will dramatically increase their chances at a financially comfortable and secure life*.

Blame lies in all parts, perhaps not equally, but certainly not exclusively.

Edit: On that topic you can extend these thoughts to why private schools are better than public schools (on average). The students who go to private schools need to PAY. If your parents are paying, they usually want results... and have probably passed that feeling onto their children. They are more likely to be interested in how their child is doing when they need to pay directly for it. The school gets students by providing a good environment for the students; this includes rejecting problem students; a selectiveness public education does not have.

At the end, it still means that parents are a large influence on their children's success.

Edit *changed phrasing due to driftwood.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 12:44pm by LockeColeMA

Even voucher experiments show a certain degree of selection bias in that the students who are going to private schools are the ones whose parents cared enough to do the paperwork and research.

Not always.



This.

I have 2 children on full-tuition college scholarships and 3 step-children who dropped out of high school (The 2nd one of the 3 later spent time in prison and he and the 3rd one later earned GEDs).

Their mother and I were the same parents with the same values for all of them.

Blaming parents exclusively is ignorant.

Who said it was exclusive.

Besides, maybe you're just shitty parents and managed to luck out with the successful kids.

I'm not defending you because I think you are, in fact, an idiot. However, I do believe that there can be genetic factors that come into play - however you and your spouse suckass for not recognizing that or attempting to get extra assistance for her first batch of rugrats.