Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Woman fined $1.9 million for 24 illegal song downloadsFollow

#1 Jun 19 2009 at 5:00 AM Rating: Good
*****
12,049 posts
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/18/minnesota.music.download.fine/index.html wrote:
(CNN) -- A federal jury Thursday found a 32-year-old Minnesota woman guilty of illegally downloading music from the Internet and fined her $80,000 each -- a total of $1.9 million -- for 24 songs.


Illegal downloads of musical files will cost a Minnesota woman $1.9 million, a jury has decided.

Jammie Thomas-Rasset's case was the first such copyright infringement case to go to trial in the United States, her attorney said.

Attorney Joe Sibley said that his client was shocked at fine, noting that the price tag on the songs she downloaded was 99 cents.

She plans to appeal, he said.

Cara Duckworth, a spokeswoman for the Recording Industry Association of America, said the RIIA was "pleased that the jury agreed with the evidence and found the defendant liable."

"We appreciate the jury's service and that they take this as seriously as we do," she said.

Thomas-Rasset downloaded work by artists such as No Doubt, Linkin Park, Gloria Estefan and Sheryl Crow.

This was the second trial for Thomas-Rasset. The judge ordered a retrial in 2007 after there was an error in the wording of jury instructions.

The fines jumped considerably from the first trial, which granted just $220,000 to the recording companies.

Thomas-Rasset is married with four children and works for an Indian tribe in Minnesota.


Whoa! Does this seem, er, excessive to anyone else? I'm curious as to why the fines rose from $220,000 (which still seems very high) to almost $2 million.
#2 Jun 19 2009 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
******
29,527 posts
LockeColeMA wrote:
I'm curious as to why the fines rose from $220,000 (which still seems very high) to almost $2 million.


In her appeal, didn't she get convicted of a harsher crime?
#3 Jun 19 2009 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
*****
12,049 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
I'm curious as to why the fines rose from $220,000 (which still seems very high) to almost $2 million.


In her appeal, didn't she get convicted of a harsher crime?


Yep. From Yahoo News:
Quote:
Thomas-Rasset's second trial actually turned out worse for her. When a different federal jury heard her case in 2007, it hit Thomas-Rasset with a $222,000 judgment.

The new trial was ordered after the judge in the case decided he had erred in giving jury instructions.

Thomas-Rasset sat glumly with her chin in hand as she heard the jury's finding of willful infringement, which increased the potential penalty. She raised her eyebrows in surprise when the jury's penalty of $80,000 per song was read.

Outside the courtroom, she called the $1.92 million figure "kind of ridiculous" but expressed resignation over the decision.
"There's no way they're ever going to get that," said Thomas-Rasset, a 32-year-old mother of four from the central Minnesota city of Brainerd. "I'm a mom, limited means, so I'm not going to worry about it now."

Her attorney, Kiwi Camara, said he was surprised by the size of the judgment. He said it suggested that jurors didn't believe Thomas-Rasset's denials of illegal file-sharing, and that they were angry with her.

Camara said he and his client hadn't decided whether to appeal or pursue the Recording Industry Association of America's settlement overtures.

Cara Duckworth, a spokeswoman for the RIAA, said the industry remains willing to settle. She refused to name a figure, but acknowledged Thomas-Rasset had been given the chance to settle for $3,000 to $5,000 earlier in the case.

"Since Day One we have been willing to settle this case and we remain willing to do so," Duckworth said.

In closing arguments earlier Thursday, attorneys for both sides disputed what the evidence showed.

An attorney for the recording industry, Tim Reynolds, said the "greater weight of the evidence" showed that Thomas-Rasset was responsible for the illegal file-sharing that took place on her computer. He urged jurors to hold her accountable to deter others from a practice he said has significantly harmed the people who bring music to everyone.

Defense attorney Joe Sibley said the music companies failed to prove allegations that Thomas-Rasset gave away songs by Gloria Estefan, Sheryl Crow, Green Day, Journey and others.

"Only Jammie Thomas's computer was linked to illegal file-sharing on Kazaa," Sibley said. "They couldn't put a face behind the computer."

Sibley urged jurors not to ruin Thomas-Rasset's life with a debt she could never pay. Under federal law, the jury could have awarded up to $150,000 per song.

...

This case was the only one of more than 30,000 similar lawsuits to make it all the way to trial. The vast majority of people targeted by the music industry had settled for about $3,500 each. The recording industry has said it stopped filing such lawsuits last August and is instead now working with Internet service providers to fight the worst offenders.

In testimony this week, Thomas-Rasset denied she shared any songs. On Wednesday, the self-described "huge music fan" raised the possibility for the first time in the long-running case that her children or ex-husband might have done it. The defense did not provide any evidence, though, that any of them had shared the files.

The recording companies accused Thomas-Rasset of offering 1,700 songs on Kazaa as of February 2005, before the company became a legal music subscription service following a settlement with entertainment companies. For simplicity's sake the music industry tried to prove only 24 infringements.

Reynolds argued Thursday that the evidence clearly pointed to Thomas-Rasset as the person who made the songs available on Kazaa under the screen name "tereastarr." It's the same nickname she acknowledged having used for years for her e-mail and several other computer accounts, including her MySpace page.

Reynolds said the copyright security company MediaSentry traced the files offered by "tereastarr" on Kazaa to Thomas-Rasset's Internet Protocol address — the online equivalent of a street address — and to her modem.

He said MediaSentry downloaded a sample of them from the shared directory on her computer. That's an important point, given Davis' new instructions to jurors.

Although the plaintiffs weren't able to prove that anyone but MediaSentry downloaded songs off her computer because Kazaa kept no such records, Reynolds told the jury it's only logical that many users had downloaded songs offered through her computer because that's what Kazaa was there for.


This seems... odd. Assuming this was only a "logical" step and they had zero proof that she distributed these songs, I'm thinking the fines are much too large. I'm curious what the difference between copyright infringement and WILLFUL copyright infringement is. Guess I need to look that up next.
#4 Jun 19 2009 at 5:20 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Article wrote:
Her attorney, Kiwi Camara...
I found the problem.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5 Jun 19 2009 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
Keeper of the Shroud
*****
13,632 posts
I'd like to know why exactly it's federal law that you can be fined up to 150k dollars for stealing something that only costs one or two dollars. That just seems absurd to me.
#6 Jun 19 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
**
777 posts
Suddenly I'm reminded why I dislike the music industry. RIAA can go eat a cheese.

I ain't given folks like that any of my money.

EDIT: Wow? Really? Word filter changes cock into cheese? I'm... amused. Though the idea of **** cheese is quite... ewww. Wash behind the ears and between the cock folds!

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 9:58am by Karelyn
#7 Jun 19 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
My defense would have been "here, can I give 99 cents for each song directly to the artists? it's more than they'll see from a 2 million settlement to their managers."

Seriously, I stopped paying for music in CD format when I heard that most artists only make 20 cents off a $10 CD. I'd rather pay $50 cash and see them live in concert; at least I know they're getting an actual paycheck from those performances.

(Now I subsist on remixes that weren't released officially and music from overseas. I got a warning from the JRIA once, which was quite funny because I had to translate it through babelfish to figure out what it was. It gave a telephone number to call if I had questions, and I was tempted to call it and ask if they had anyone who spoke English and they ask that person if they had any plans to release Ayumi Hamasaki's albums in the US so I could go out and buy them without paying $20 in duty fees.)
#8 Jun 19 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:
I'd like to know why exactly it's federal law that you can be fined up to 150k dollars for stealing something that only costs one or two dollars. That just seems absurd to me.
I'd guess you're being fined $150k for the "willful infringement" of copyright. What you're infringing upon is almost irrelevant.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#9 Jun 19 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
I assumed the size of the judgment was due to taste. Anyone who intentionally obtains Linkin Park should get the book thrown at them.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#10Yodabunny, Posted: Jun 19 2009 at 6:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow, you're legal system is retarded.
#11 Jun 19 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,829 posts
This whole thing is so fucking absurd.

The money lost from illegal music downloads is a drop in the bucket for most record companies, yet they have the ability to afford to bring punitive lawsuits against the perpetrators that cost more in legal fees than the files cost them to begin with.

On the other side of the coin, you have artists like Casey Stratton.

Casey produced one album under a major label which never earned him a dime and then decided to release future albums under his own label because the major labels wouldn't let him make the music he wanted to make (he's a counter-tenor, i.e. an adult male soprano, and they kept telling him "sing like a boy" when a large part of the beauty of his voice is due to its androgynous sound.)

Casey produces about one album a year and a number of other minor projects, which you can get off his website via mp3 downloads, or through Itunes, or through CDBaby on disc. For his loyal fans, he usually even runs pre-order specials when he has an upcoming release where when you pre-order you can get the digital downloads before the release date, and then get your CD on the release date.

Insanely talented though he is, he's barely breaking even, because he doesn't have the marketing resources a big-name label would provide him with. He understands that this is the price he pays for maintaining his artistic integrity. He can be making bundles producing music he hates, or he can live cheap and produce music he loves. Still...some weeks, his statement from Itunes has him making LESS THAN A DOLLAR. And yet, within a few weeks of each new album release, he finds his work all over the p2p sites.

In Casey's case, revenue lost from file-sharing is NOT a drop in the bucket. It makes a significant impact on his livelihood. But, of course, Casey will never be able to track down and seek legal redress from the people who pirate his work. He doesn't have the resources for it. So...people can almost literally steal food from his mouth and get away with it, while the RIAA has the resources to penalize file-sharers as nothing more than a vanity exercise. How fucking stupid is that?

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 8:06am by Ambrya
#12 Jun 19 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
That's why I only download classical music. Vivaldi isn't going to be suing me any time soon.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#13 Jun 19 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,909 posts
Debalic wrote:
That's why I only download classical music.
#14 Jun 19 2009 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Ambrya wrote:
In Casey's case, revenue lost from file-sharing is NOT a drop in the bucket. It makes a significant impact on his livelihood. But, of course, Casey will never be able to track down and seek legal redress from the people who pirate his work. He doesn't have the resources for it. So...people can almost literally steal food from his mouth and get away with it, while the RIAA has the resources to penalize file-sharers as nothing more than a vanity exercise. How fucking stupid is that?
On the other hand, if people are scared away from illegal file sharing through the RIAA lawsuits, Stratton benefits from it.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#15 Jun 19 2009 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
***
3,829 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
In Casey's case, revenue lost from file-sharing is NOT a drop in the bucket. It makes a significant impact on his livelihood. But, of course, Casey will never be able to track down and seek legal redress from the people who pirate his work. He doesn't have the resources for it. So...people can almost literally steal food from his mouth and get away with it, while the RIAA has the resources to penalize file-sharers as nothing more than a vanity exercise. How fucking stupid is that?
On the other hand, if people are scared away from illegal file sharing through the RIAA lawsuits, Stratton benefits from it.


Hmm, true, but what are the chances of that actually happening? It's been, what, ten years since the Napster debacle went down? All p2p-ers have done is seek new p2p methods.
#16 Jun 19 2009 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
What are the chances? Probably slim to none. But since Stratton can't hunt down each file sharer vigilante-style, at least someone is going after them. I say this purely from Stratton/RIAA's perspective -- I'm not taking any moral high ground. I download stuff and will readily admit that it's theft.

Really, the options are to encode the song files with some cumbersome protection to prevent illegal transfers, to somehow stop people from illegally transferring or to just write off albums as commericals for stage shows and accept any money you make on a CD as a nice surprise. Assuming Stratton doesn't want to do the third thing, at least someone is attempting the second with him as a beneficiary.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Jun 19 2009 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
**
291 posts
The judgement wasn't just for her downloading and using the songs. The jury decided she was distributing them. Just by way of comparison, if 100,000 people downloaded 20 songs each from her computer, that's almost $2M in losses to the industry. And hell, maybe she was lying and really did intend for people to be able to download songs frm her through file sharing. They were stupid and should have taken the 3K-5K settlement offers.

Personally I don't care much if the music industry get's stiffed. They've been stiffing the public and the artists for a long time. But the argument for protecting intellectual property rights goes like this ... if the industry
can't make money, the opportunities they provide to artists go away. If artists can't reach wider audiences, they can't make money. And if the artists can't make money, creative efforts will decrease. The internet changes the landscape, though. Even complete duds can get their stuff out to huge audiences, so the generic argument for draconian laws protecting this stuff starts to fail.
#18 Jun 19 2009 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
*****
10,601 posts
according to the one article the settlement offer is still on the table.

That's a really smart move by the RIAA if it's true.
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#19 Jun 19 2009 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
Tracer Bullet
*****
12,636 posts
I've been trying to download more legally, particularly in cases where the artist is still alive and active, isn't already a millionaire, is an up-and-comer or not signed with a major label, etc. Basically, trying to support new and/or struggling artists that don't have the corporate machine behind them.

What's annoying though is that they still charge $0.99 per song even though:

a) They are saving TONS of money by not having to manufacture physical CDs and ship them around the world
b) The sound quality of the file suffers in comparison to CD
c) You don't get a nifty bit of artwork or booklet as souvenir

With those disadvantages, a song should really be something like half the price of the going rate :/ I know I'd buy twice as much to make up for the profit loss.



Edited, Jun 19th 2009 11:28am by trickybeck
#20 Jun 19 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
If you really want to support up and coming musicians, go to live shows. Go see them in clubs and other small venues.

I don't download music from file sharers because of ethical reasons; but I realize the hypocrisy there, since I have borrowed books from friends. Same thing, only more organized and hey! digital.

____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#21 Jun 19 2009 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Flea makes fun of me for buying CDs from artists I'm actively supporting but I figure if no one's buying the albums, they ain't gonna make no more.

I tend to buy CDs for the reasons Tricky states. For the same money, give or take a buck, I get the physical media with higher quality. Plus, it's hard to tuck your ticket stubs into the back of the jewel case from a download.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Jun 19 2009 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
zepoodle wrote:
Debalic wrote:
That's why I only download classical music.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#23 Jun 19 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
*****
10,359 posts
Honestly it would be nice to just go to a band's website and donate directly. I don't really know if you can, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of bands have figured out the wonders of paypal, but even then I don't know if they owe anything to their label or not from that.

Usagi recently linked to a website in some thread by catwho that had an entire album up for streaming. Listen to it for free but you can't close the browser. I promptly bought the album (available for instant download no less) because I liked what I heard.

***

That first paragraph makes me seem sort of willfully apathetic, but I am speaking to people who buy music that actually comes out in stores. Approximately four fifths of the stuff I listen to does not.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 12:54pm by Pensive
#24 Jun 19 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Flea makes fun of me for buying CDs from artists I'm actively supporting but I figure if no one's buying the albums, they ain't gonna make no more.

I tend to buy CDs for the reasons Tricky states. For the same money, give or take a buck, I get the physical media with higher quality. Plus, it's hard to tuck your ticket stubs into the back of the jewel case from a download.
I like to buy the artist's CD at the venue when we go see a show.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#25 Jun 19 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
******
29,527 posts
trickybeck wrote:
I've been trying to download more legally, particularly in cases where the artist is still alive and active, isn't already a millionaire, is an up-and-comer or not signed with a major label, etc. Basically, trying to support new and/or struggling artists that don't have the corporate machine behind them.

What's annoying though is that they still charge $0.99 per song even though:

a) They are saving TONS of money by not having to manufacture physical CDs and ship them around the world
b) The sound quality of the file suffers in comparison to CD
c) You don't get a nifty bit of artwork or booklet as souvenir

With those disadvantages, a song should really be something like half the price of the going rate :/ I know I'd buy twice as much to make up for the profit loss.


While I agree with you, purchasing individual songs does have the benefit that I don't have to buy an entire album that I mostly don't give a crap about for a song or two I actually like, so for me, even at the $0.99 price, it's still a net savings.
#26 Jun 19 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,593 posts
Peerguardian could have saved her a lot-o-trouble.
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 209 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (209)