Jophiel wrote:
catwho the Mundane wrote:
Men should just stay the @#%^ out of this argument, really. Its not your bodies at stake.
God damned ******.
Hey, if they don't want the support of males who believe in women's rights, fuck 'em.
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Good point. I'll stop voting for pro-choice candidates because I should just stay the fuck out of it.
God damned ******.
Hey, if they don't want the support of males who believe in women's rights, fuck 'em.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Yeah, Joph! You too! Stay out! 
Okay, poor choice of words. I let the rage overtake me and garbage came out.
See, I can admit being stupid unlike the resident knuckleheads of the forum.
The decision to have a child should primarily be between a woman and her doctor and the father of the baby, not the government, or the church, or anyone outside of that group of three people. And frankly, since the woman has to incur the opportunity cost of carrying the child for 9 months, her opinion matters the most.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:17pm by catwho
Okay, poor choice of words. I let the rage overtake me and garbage came out.
See, I can admit being stupid unlike the resident knuckleheads of the forum.
The decision to have a child should primarily be between a woman and her doctor and the father of the baby, not the government, or the church, or anyone outside of that group of three people. And frankly, since the woman has to incur the opportunity cost of carrying the child for 9 months, her opinion matters the most.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:17pm by catwho
catwho the Mundane wrote:
Yeah, Joph! You too! Stay out!
Okay, poor choice of words. I let the rage overtake me and garbage came out.
See, I can admit being stupid until the resident knuckleheads of the forum.
The decision to have a child should primarily be between a woman and her doctor and the father of the baby, not the government, or the church, or anyone outside of that group of three people. And frankly, since the woman has to incur the opportunity cost of carrying the child for 9 months, her opinion matters the most.
Okay, poor choice of words. I let the rage overtake me and garbage came out.
See, I can admit being stupid until the resident knuckleheads of the forum.
The decision to have a child should primarily be between a woman and her doctor and the father of the baby, not the government, or the church, or anyone outside of that group of three people. And frankly, since the woman has to incur the opportunity cost of carrying the child for 9 months, her opinion matters the most.
The male ego is very fragile, particularly where a ****** is concerned.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've never understood why it matters when it's performed. It's bound to grow into a person no matter which trimester you're in. You're either for abortion or agin' it, in my book.
Doing so is extremely difficult without either outlawing all abortion or implicitly condoning actual infanticide.
If you're approaching the issue with sentience or pain capacity or something as the moral patiency, and we recognize that there are degrees of it, then it's difficult to think of a good reason to abort after the point at which the fetus achieves enough of it, excepting health of the mother.
Because really, the health of the mother seems like the only difference between a fetus two minutes before birth, and a baby two minutes after.
Cat wrote:
YOU do not own my body.
Sure, but you don't really own the baby's; you just have dominion over it due to a flaw in biology. If varus believes it's actually infanticide he's not in the wrong to try to stop it.
Annabella wrote:
The male ego is very fragile, particularly where a ****** is concerned.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Annabella wrote:
The male ego is very fragile, particularly where a ****** is concerned.
Only when the hormones dictate.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Quote:
Sure, but you don't really own the baby's; you just have dominion over it due to a flaw in biology. If varus believes it's actually infanticide he's not in the wrong to try to stop it.
Flaw?
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Yes, it's a flaw. It's not possible to grant a woman both total control over her body and respect the moral worth of a baby (assuming that it does in fact develop that worth in the womb and not after birth (which may not be true but whatever I don't really want to call newborn babies worthless)) at the same time. We want to allow freedom and also protect something worthy of living, but it's not always possible.
***
If pressed i'd probably call the newborns worthless though. It's really hard to accept personally, and it's impossible to accept emotionally or socially.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:54pm by Pensive
***
If pressed i'd probably call the newborns worthless though. It's really hard to accept personally, and it's impossible to accept emotionally or socially.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:54pm by Pensive
Pensive wrote:
Yes, it's a flaw. It's not possible to grant a woman both total control over her body and respect the moral worth of a baby (assuming that it does in fact develop that worth in the womb and not after birth (which may not be true but whatever I don't really want to call newborn babies worthless)) at the same time. We want to allow freedom and also protect something worthy of living, but it's not always possible.
***
If pressed i'd probably call the newborns worthless though. It's really hard to accept personally, and it's impossible to accept emotionally or socially.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:54pm by Pensive
***
If pressed i'd probably call the newborns worthless though. It's really hard to accept personally, and it's impossible to accept emotionally or socially.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:54pm by Pensive
I would like to be impregnated by varrus, if only to have a third trimester abortion.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Quote:
Men should just stay the @#%^ out of this argument, really. Its not your bodies at stake. The issue of abortion is entirely one of control over women. YOU do not own my body. Therefore, YOU do not have any determination over what happens to it. I don't go around saying men can't ********** because it wastes sperm, because it's none of my fricking business.
Now perhaps at some point it will be, and it's not evil to think that it should be that way. I'm not going to condemn you for disagreeing with me, but neither am I going to agree with you.
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:33pm by Xsarus
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Quote:
I would like to be impregnated by varrus, if only to have a third trimester abortion.
I believe that this is the only time appropriate to post the most hideous abortion story I've ever read.
***
Found it... lord forgive me.
Quote:
If I was a girl, I would get pregnant as many times as possible, then have abortions after the third month of being pregnant so I would deliver a potato sized 1/3 developed dead fetus, then I would take the fetus, put it in a jar of preservative liquid, and put it on a shelf in a secret room in my house, and I would do it until I had so many the rooms walls were nothing but potato sized aborted fetuses. Then I would have a kid and when they're bad I would make them sit in the fetus room and remind them of how easy I could have aborted them.
oops
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:33pm by Xsarus
Edited, Jul 7th 2009 8:33pm by Xsarus
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
Pensive wrote:
Quote:
I would like to be impregnated by varrus, if only to have a third trimester abortion.
I believe that this is the only time appropriate to post the most hideous abortion story I've ever read.
***
Found it... lord forgive me.
Quote:
If I was a girl, I would get pregnant as many times as possible, then have abortions after the third month of being pregnant so I would deliver a potato sized 1/3 developed dead fetus, then I would take the fetus, put it in a jar of preservative liquid, and put it on a shelf in a secret room in my house, and I would do it until I had so many the rooms walls were nothing but potato sized aborted fetuses. Then I would have a kid and when they're bad I would make them sit in the fetus room and remind them of how easy I could have aborted them.
Did Mindel write that? Or Sweetums?
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
I found it one day in a demotivational poster, and promptly saved it.
That.
Is.
AWESOME.
Is.
AWESOME.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Meh, if I was pregnant or had a baby, I'd consider my ownership of it the same way I consider my ownership of my cat. Yes, it's a living breathing thing. But if I have to feed it, clean its ****, and I can go to jail for neglecting it or hurting it, then by gum I own it. Difference is, the baby grows out of that stage.
I guess, I don't consider babies to cease to be property of their parents until they're potty trained, toddling on their own, and know how to open the pantry to get out their own cheerios.
Cats have spontaneous abortions too, but their bodies mostly reabsorb the tissue rather than eject it even if its a late term kitty pregnancy ending.
I guess, I don't consider babies to cease to be property of their parents until they're potty trained, toddling on their own, and know how to open the pantry to get out their own cheerios.
Cats have spontaneous abortions too, but their bodies mostly reabsorb the tissue rather than eject it even if its a late term kitty pregnancy ending.
My gripe at the "You should stay out of it" remark has nothing to do with the idea that the baby in question may be 50% mine. Rather, if some group -- women, homosexuals, minorities, whatever -- want me to vote for their cause, then don't fucking insult my intelligence by saying that I'm not worthy of having an opinion regarding that cause. If you think I'm incapable of wrapping my feeble male, heterosexual Caucasian mind around your issues then don't ask me to vote for them.
I'm not speaking directly to Catwho here since she's already backed off it. I just see it pop up from time to time in various debates and it never ceases to amaze me that someone would be short-sighted enough to ask for people's support on an issue and then turn around and tell them that they don't pass some purity test to be allowed to have a valid opinion on the matter.
I'm not speaking directly to Catwho here since she's already backed off it. I just see it pop up from time to time in various debates and it never ceases to amaze me that someone would be short-sighted enough to ask for people's support on an issue and then turn around and tell them that they don't pass some purity test to be allowed to have a valid opinion on the matter.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Okay, sure you can own it if that's what you mean by own. We can't discount it's relevance if it can actually feel pain or think or do any of those things that make it so. I really have to waver back and forth between extremes myself.
If we could just lay eggs like sensible reptiles we wouldn't have this moral ambiguity
If we could just lay eggs like sensible reptiles we wouldn't have this moral ambiguity
Jophiel wrote:
My gripe at the "You should stay out of it" remark has nothing to do with the idea that the baby in question may be 50% mine. Rather, if some group -- women, homosexuals, minorities, whatever -- want me to vote for their cause, then don't fucking insult my intelligence by saying that I'm not worthy of having an opinion regarding that cause. If you think I'm incapable of wrapping my feeble male, heterosexual Caucasian mind around your issues then don't ask me to vote for them.
I'm not speaking directly to Catwho here since she's already backed off it. I just see it pop up from time to time in various debates and it never ceases to amaze me that someone would be short-sighted enough to ask for people's support on an issue and then turn around and tell them that they don't pass some purity test to be allowed to have a valid opinion on the matter.
I'm not speaking directly to Catwho here since she's already backed off it. I just see it pop up from time to time in various debates and it never ceases to amaze me that someone would be short-sighted enough to ask for people's support on an issue and then turn around and tell them that they don't pass some purity test to be allowed to have a valid opinion on the matter.
Boy, it's tough to be a middle class, straight white man.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Annabella wrote:
Boy, it's tough to be a middle class, straight white man.
Edited, Jul 8th 2009 8:37am by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Pensive wrote:
you just have dominion over it due to a flaw in biology.
Edit - sorry, i guess i gotta keep reading.
Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:08pm by Elinda
Edit - I conclude that people should have been egg-layers.
Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:11pm by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Pensive wrote:
you just have dominion over it due to a flaw in biology.
Edit - sorry, i guess i gotta keep reading.
Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:08pm by Elinda
Edit - I conclude that people should have been egg-layers.
Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:11pm by Elinda
It would have simplified so many things, really. And just imagine the market for fancified egg baskets.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Jophiel wrote:
Annabella wrote:
Boy, it's tough to be a middle class, straight white man.
Edited, Jul 8th 2009 8:37am by Jophiel
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Annabella wrote:
You can actually. I think you've just demonstrated that.
But you'll never know what it's like so your opinion doesn't matter.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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