Socialist HealthcareFollow

Virus

Waits - those figures are waay out of date. Last month, 17 patients in the UK had waitied longer than 18 weeks for any treatment. Before the current Government raised investment, people did wait for up to 2 years under the Conservative Govt.)

Scanners - My point you knuckle-dragger. We don't need as many scanners as you because we only use them when evidenced. The fact that you CT or MRI scan everyone with a mild headache is why you have all the kit and throw money at it.

Surgery- Did you read my point about how many Americans undergo surgery and end up worse than before the operation?

And finally - The article doesn't cite any source, yet contradicts all the data from independent, peer-reviewed studies. I can't be ***** looking up which mega-corp has funded the propaganda it spouts, but using uncited arguments makes it dismissable.

Any article on relative efficiency and expenditure that doesn't start and underpin it with comparable need gets an 'F' grade.

ETA - Re. Dialysis - we don't perform anything like as much dialysis as you because we don't need as much - evidence suggesting our preventive care is more advanced (Preventing renal failure isn't as profitable as dialysing patients so more of your grandparents die younger and fuel the healthcare companies.) Getting this yet?



Edited, Jun 16th 2009 12:13pm by Nobby

Perfect! Gbaji hereby declares Varus the victor!

Nexa

You want all private companies employees to be able to lock their companies into their current health coverage if those employees feel that its superior to the public plan?

Ok, I guess I can get behind that.

Well ****, my company's current healthcare plan just raised the rates 20% on us. We were going to shop around and look for a better deal, but I think that we get a better deal than the planned public option with our existing coverage, so we are going to demand our privately owned company grandfather our insurance plan in instead.

You realize those numbers are better than those in the United States, right?

The thrust of the column in the OP is that Obama said that health care contracts were part of what broke GM and that Section 133 of Kennedy's bill grandfathers in collective bargining healthcare agreements -- and GM had such an agreement! OMG!!!

What it fails to mention is that:
(a) the automotive union agreements are/were pretty unique in size and scope. Calling the union agreement at, say, a paper mill a "GM-type plan" is pretty disingenuous.
-and-
(b) the bill creates no onus to continue the union plans past their already agreed upon termination dates (nor does it prevent early termination should the union agree to it) so Section 133 creates a phasing period between the union & government plans rather than establishing a permanant union plan presence. In fact, without a government plan to fall back into, it's unlikely that the standing union plans would ever significantly change barring the collapse of the parent company.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 11:58am by Jophiel

He and I made our posts at the same time.



Then you should stop ignoring what we tell you.

In Canada we have Healthcare provided "free" by the government. Dental however is not covered. Dentists try to snake every penny out of your dental plan (provided by work in my case).

I don't worry about going to the doctor, I don't worry about making insurance payments. If I get sick, or I have a concern, I go to the doctor. In this way I'm more likely to catch things BEFORE they become a big issue, making me healthier and therefore cheaper to maintain.

I do however worry about going to the dentist. I have to pay a deductible and have limited coverage so I wait a little longer than I probably should in the hopes that my toothache will go away. This of course leads to more expensive treatments being required.

Socialized health care makes for healthier, happier people at a much cheaper cost. Why anyone would be against that is beyond me.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 1:17pm by Yodabunny

Bad news, Varrus. The AMA said today, after meeting with President Obama yesterday, that it's shifting its stance to allow support for some publicly funded options.

The usual pundits were crowing about how the AMA stated that it didn't support a public option a few days ago. One less arrow in the quiver.

Nobby stated that the US does, there was no link. Whether or not it's true...I don't know.

BUT IT HAS THE BASE WORD SOCIAL IN THERE.

YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE ARE "SOCIAL"?? BEES!!! DO YOU WANT BEES HANDLING YOUR MEDICAL CARE? PEOPLE DIE FROM BEE STINGS ALL THE TIME!!!!