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What acts constitutes sex and how do you lose your virginityFollow

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#77 Jun 16 2009 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Of course there's a slew of problems associated with abstinence-only education, particularly in that not only does it not work, but it raises the rate of teenage pregnancies and the spread of STDs (they're less likely to use a condom).


IIRC, the last time this subject came up, the argument was that abstinence only didn't improve the rate at which teens got pregnant or STDs. Which means that it is exactly as effective as safe sex education.


Wrong.

The last time the subject came up, and every OTHER time this subject has come up, research was cited which demonstrates that kids who take abstinence-only education not only fails to deter kids from engaging in sexual activity, but it makes the LESS likely to employ safer-sex practices when they do so (because, of course, they are kept ignorant about how to practice safer-sex.)

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Is one really "better" than the other?


Yes. Comprehensive sex-ed results in kids who are more likely to use protection, abstinence-only sex-ed results in kids who are less likely to use protection. The superiority of the former is pretty clear-cut.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 6:45pm by Ambrya
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#78 Jun 16 2009 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
IIRC
You don't.


Lol. I do. I clearly remember this big debate about abstinence only education versus safe-sex education. At some point, you linked to a study and made a big deal about how it showed that the rates of teen pregnancy and STDs among those taught abstinence were no lower than those among teens taught more traditional sex education and so there was no reason to teach abstinence. We went back and forth debating various bits of the study and the data, and what not. Then, after a few days of this, I pointed out that if the rates of those things were the same (which was the exact point you'd been arguing), then there was no reason to teach either in preference to the other at all. Thus, abstinence was just as "good" as safe-sex education.


I don't recall where the argument went from that point. I think you kinda blustered for a bit and then moved on to arguing something else. Point being, that the very data you argued for days didn't show that abstinence only was "worse" than traditional sex education. It only showed that it wasn't "better".
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#79 Jun 16 2009 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Ambrya wrote:
The last time the subject came up, and every OTHER time this subject has come up, research was cited which demonstrates that kids who take abstinence-only education not only fails to deter kids from engaging in sexual activity, but it makes the LESS likely to employ safer-sex practices when they do so (because, of course, they are kept ignorant about how to practice safer-sex.)


Wrong. The last time we argued this, the whole argument was that abstinence data was the same as traditional data.


The honest answer is that those taught abstinence are slightly less likely to engage in sexual behavior, but are slightly less safe when they do so. The best you can argue is that the two cancel themselves out, leaving an overall result that is statistically similar regardless of which method is used.

I actually disagreed with some of the conclusions in that study, insisting that some of the data didn't quite match up with the claims they were making. The point being that even if I was 100% wrong, and Joph were 100% right in that argument, that just meant that the two were statistically identical. Which does not support the argument that we should favor one over the other.


I invite you to find that old thread if you want. Or go find new data if you want. I'm satisfied that I recall the last debate just fine.
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#80 Jun 16 2009 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
The honest answer is that those taught abstinence are slightly less likely to engage in sexual behavior, but are slightly less safe when they do so.


An unacceptable statistic under any circumstances. Nothing should be taught that makes students less safe. Ever.
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#81 Jun 16 2009 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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CBD wrote:
Nothing should be taught that makes students less safe. Ever.

Don't we teach students how to write with pencils? Pencils can be dangerous! You could poke an eye out!

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 11:09pm by Karelyn
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#82 Jun 16 2009 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a pretty retarded debate to begin with. Teaching children safety methods regarding sex is always going to make them more safe than just telling them not to have sex. They're kids. They're going to do it eventually.

I mean, imagine your son really wants to ride a bike. You can't monitor him all the time and you can't stop him from finding bikes. He's never ridden a bike before and you're worried he might try it without training wheels or something and hurt himself. Do you a) forbid him from riding bikes, even though you know you can't enforce it or b) teach him how to ride a bike so that when he does do it, he does it properly?
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#83 Jun 16 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Karelyn wrote:
CBD wrote:
Nothing should be taught that makes students less safe. Ever.

Don't we teach students how to write with pencils? Pencils can be dangerous! You could poke an eye out!

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 11:09pm by Karelyn


Then we're not really teaching them how, are we?



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#84 Jun 16 2009 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Karelyn wrote:
CBD wrote:
Nothing should be taught that makes students less safe. Ever.

Don't we teach students how to write with pencils? Pencils can be dangerous! You could poke an eye out!

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 11:09pm by Karelyn


Then we're not really teaching them how, are we?



"Jimmy, the pencil does not go on your eye, it goes on the paper!"

"But Teacher, you told me I needed to dot my eyes!"
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#85 Jun 16 2009 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:
Did you know that Armand Hammer is a real guy, unrelated to the company Arm & Hammer?

Not that I'm assuming you don't know, but it's just one of those wacky facts.



Actually, I didn't know. I don't keep up on my Petroleum Tycoons.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 11:59pm by TirithRR
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#86 Jun 16 2009 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'm satisfied that I recall the last debate just fine.


Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

Okay, guys, we can all pack it in and go home, because God knows gbaji never remembers former debates incorrectly.

Except, y'know, on those days that end in Y.
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#87 Jun 16 2009 at 8:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
IIRC
You don't.
Lol. I do.
No, you don't. I've re-read the thread. You're completely misremembering it.

It was a pretty funny thread though and I won't play games and try to hide it or anything because it'd be a shame to hide its light under a bushel. Have at it.
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We went back and forth debating various bits of the study and the data
In the context of the thread in question, this literally made me laugh out loud.
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#88 Jun 16 2009 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default
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But, mostly, you can keep STDs a secret. Pregnancy on a teen is a little harder to hide.
inless your really over weight! you always have those chubby chasers =P
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#89 Jun 16 2009 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
We went back and forth debating various bits of the study and the data
In the context of the thread in question, this literally made me laugh out loud.
Oh I remember that thread. That was one of the best threads I've ever read.

I especially liked when Gbaji decided he was talking about broad trends and political perspectives rather then the all important data he had no idea about for the rest of the thread. He then insisted that it was about logic, and that what he saw just made sense.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 1:20am by Xsarus
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#90 Jun 16 2009 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
IIRC
You don't.
Lol. I do.
No, you don't. I've re-read the thread. You're completely misremembering it.

It was a pretty funny thread though and I won't play games and try to hide it or anything because it'd be a shame to hide its light under a bushel. Have at it.


Oooh! The thread in which gbaji claims he knows more about Nexa's specialized field of study and work than Nexa does because the fact that he doesn't work in that field makes him better able to understand it.

Yup, yup. That's a classic.
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