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What acts constitutes sex and how do you lose your virginityFollow

#52 Jun 15 2009 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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gbaji wrote:
You're conflating two different things. Those who promote abstinence only education believe that there is a value to abstinence and virginity beyond just avoiding the physiological consequences of sexual activity. Again. Unless you can produce evidence that they're promoting the use of oral or **** sex as an alternative to vaginal sex, then it's not the abstinence education that is causing this.
Of course it is. When the moment of truth hits a kid who is abstinent, chances are they'll wind up doing something sexual that isn't vaginal intercourse, so they can calm their own urges while still maintaining what they believe to be abstinence.

Of course there's a slew of problems associated with abstinence-only education, particularly in that not only does it not work, but it raises the rate of teenage pregnancies and the spread of STDs (they're less likely to use a condom). The fact that it doesn't change the average age at which kids first have sex by more than a year is unimportant in the face of those larger problems.
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#53 Jun 15 2009 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:
If you consider zero to be "about as much" as a very small amount, then I suppose so.

I assumed by saying "There's actual consequences and rewards," you were making grade school graduations into something more than trivial. I misunderstood then.
#54 Jun 15 2009 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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It reminds me of a scene in boy meets world, the scream episode in fact, where they're running away and shawn goes "wait everybody, the virgin never dies in the movies" Jack and Eric are like uh well I'm dead and Shawns like hmmmmm... I wonder if I'm going to die because of this or not.
#55 Jun 16 2009 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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This just shows how stupid religious fanatics are, trying to create rules around concepts that have no place in 21st century life in an enlightened society.

On the upside, at least the girls will like it all 3 ways by the time they're adults. Smiley: lol
#56 Jun 16 2009 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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It's really a matter of context. I'm fairly straightforward in that I think that for heterosexual sex, losing the virginity involves penetration by a real human ***** into some form of real human *******. For gay couples who are men, same applies. For lesbians, I'm totally lost. Go fist yourself or something. Half your sex acts involve tongues, and I don't even know where to start with tongues.

A good margin for determining when you've lost your virginity is to find out what everyone agrees on, because it's one of those conventions which requires everyone to reach some sort of consensus to even be slightly meaningful. I don't want to say "virginity is whatever you want it to be", but it really is what you and other people choose to see it as.

It's a fairly meaningless concept anyway. It's sort of the thing you worry about in high school, like maths tests, graduation ceremonies and school formals.
#57 Jun 16 2009 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Dyadem wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do homosexuals who never have sex with the opposite sex lose their virginity?



Men, or Women? For a man losing his virginity I believe it's societies perception that just sticking his **** in another humans hole is losing his virginity. You can argue that then Oral sex would be sex, and indeed in some states (such as North Dakota) Oral Sex is indeed enough of a sexual act that it would qualify. For a woman, again societies perception is that she is no longer a virgin when her hymen breaks. That poses more questions. Does it only count if its from sexual penetration? If she is forcibly raped? What if she is old enough that her hymen has broken on her own (AKA having your period, since you dont get a period until there is a tear in the hymen). What if the woman in question is above 30 and her hymen has naturally deteriorated? Or if she has had any uteran surgery where they had to remove it? Does that mean she lost it to a scalpel?

Can women become virgins again through science? They've replaced hymens on women so that their new husband/lover/etc can get that 'first time' feeling. So do they lose it twice?

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 11:24pm by Dyadem
I think we've already cleared up the myth that a woman loses her virginity when her hyman breaks. Hymans are apparently fragile little devils that often break from normal mundane non-sexual stuff.

Does getting screwed by a ***** count as losing ones virginity?

I guess where I was going with the question was to get people to think about what 'losing ones virginity' actually means. It seems to be a personal thing and more based on emotions and experience than the actual physical act. I certainly know 'when' I declared my virginity lost, though I'm not sure that the fellow ever got close to full penetration.
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#58 Jun 16 2009 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
**** of vaginal sex would be losing your virginity. I think oral as something less than sex.
#59 Jun 16 2009 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
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Katie wrote:
**** of vaginal sex


Sounds pretty hardcore.
#60 Jun 16 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Tarub wrote:
Katie wrote:
**** of vaginal sex


Sounds pretty hardcore.


How would that even work?
#61 Jun 16 2009 at 5:15 AM Rating: Good
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Sigh, this thread continues to upset me.

It's like nobody wants to actually think about what they're saying, or what they're thinking.

#62 Jun 16 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
Sigh, this thread continues to upset me.
TRICKYVIRGINRAGE!!! Smiley: laugh

I'll completely admit that it's a "meaningless" social construct but that doesn't mean you can't define it. I'm happy with a strict traditional definition - ***** in ******. You did that, you're not a virgin. You didn't, then you are. Cut 'n dry, easy-peasy.

The fact that people try to argue around that and blur the margins kind of indicates that, to many, the social construct isn't as meaningless as all you enlightened modern people might hope.
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#63 Jun 16 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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I agree you can define it, but to me it's like defining, say, "tool virginity." Did you lose that when you used your plastic toy hammer to pound in the pegs? Or does that not count because it's just a toy? Does it have to be a hardware-type tool or does any purposefully-wielded object break your tool virginity?

A person observing that type of conversation would think the particpants to be loony.

#64 Jun 16 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
A person observing that type of conversation would think the particpants to be loony.
Perhaps. But we're much more deeply tied to the reproductive act than we are to ball-peen hammers. Are there cultures without a concept of virginity? I don't know the answer but I'd guess not.
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#65 Jun 16 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
trickybeck wrote:
A person observing that type of conversation would think the particpants to be loony.
Perhaps. But we're much more deeply tied to the reproductive act than we are to ball-peen hammers. Are there cultures without a concept of virginity? I don't know the answer but I'd guess not.


Have you ever read "I am Charlotte Simmons"? In the sex scene, this is exactly how she describes her lover's member. I remember laughing and wondering "What the hell is a ball-peen hammer"?

Obviously I am still one of Tricky's "tool virgins."
#66 Jun 16 2009 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
trickybeck wrote:
A person observing that type of conversation would think the particpants to be loony.
Perhaps. But we're much more deeply tied to the reproductive act than we are to ball-peen hammers. Are there cultures without a concept of virginity? I don't know the answer but I'd guess not.


Have you ever read "I am Charlotte Simmons"? In the sex scene, this is exactly how she describes her lover's member. I remember laughing and wondering "What the hell is a ball-peen hammer"?

Obviously I am still one of Tricky's "tool virgins."


What the hell is a ball-peen hammer?

I'm finding that out.
#67 Jun 16 2009 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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A whole generation of young'uns that know just what BDSM is, but don't know what a ball-peen hammer is. Smiley: oyvey
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#68 Jun 16 2009 at 8:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
A whole generation of young'uns that know just what BDSM is, but don't know what a ball-peen hammer is. Smiley: oyvey
Then they don't really know what BDSM is, do they?



ouch
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#69 Jun 16 2009 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Hammers can be easily ranked by their comedic value:

1) Ball Peen
2) Tack
3) Doc
4) M.C.
5) Sledge
6) Claw
7) Hebrew

#70 Jun 16 2009 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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You forgot Armand.
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#71 Jun 16 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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zepoodle wrote:

How would that even work?


I figured it was when you push the shared wall out of the *** while having regular intercourse. Requires positioning and a very loose woman.
#72 Jun 16 2009 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Meh, sex is sex. The way I see it, if two (or more) people are sexually pleasing each other, regardless of how they do it, that is sex.

If you are some person with a foot fetish, and someone stroking your feet makes you blow your load. Well, then hell, that's sex for you.
#73 Jun 16 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
You forgot Armand.


Smiley: oyveySmiley: laugh
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#74 Jun 16 2009 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
You forgot Armand.


Smiley: oyveySmiley: laugh

Did you know that Armand Hammer is a real guy, unrelated to the company Arm & Hammer?

Not that I'm assuming you don't know, but it's just one of those wacky facts.

#75 Jun 16 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
Of course there's a slew of problems associated with abstinence-only education, particularly in that not only does it not work, but it raises the rate of teenage pregnancies and the spread of STDs (they're less likely to use a condom).


IIRC, the last time this subject came up, the argument was that abstinence only didn't improve the rate at which teens got pregnant or STDs. Which means that it is exactly as effective as safe sex education. The real question is: If both are equally effective (or ineffective depending on how you look at it), on what basis should we decide which to teach? More significantly, if you have some kind of knee-jerk opposition to one method, is that based on reason, or some other unreasonable bias?


Quote:
The fact that it doesn't change the average age at which kids first have sex by more than a year is unimportant in the face of those larger problems.


Again. And let me be clear. I'm not a proponent of abstinence. I'm purely playing devil's advocate here. But the facts don't support your argument. Is one really "better" than the other? Or is it purely based on some speculative opinion? If the latter, then maybe it's not such a great idea to just dismiss one "side" out of hand just because you don't agree with them. It makes you look just as ignorant and close-minded...
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#76 Jun 16 2009 at 4:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
IIRC
You don't.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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