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#102 Jun 13 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
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Eh. Yeah. I don't know that much about guns. What's the difference between a shotgun and a rifle?


Shotguns kill many zombies at once at close range whereas rifles are for taking out small numbers of shamblers from long range.


As I recall, the Zombie Survival Guide rates shotguns as a pretty poor weapon for anti-zombie use. A nice handgun is rated higher.

And a crowbar is rated as the top anti zombie melee weapon, since it has utility as well as being an excellent blunt force weapon.


Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
Here's the thing, though: any intruder who hears you chamber a round into a shotgun is going to turn tail and run. Your first line of defense is avoiding the need for it, right? Huge advantage if safety is the goal.


That to. Shotguns are @#%^ing horrifying.


Indeed. While I'd also like to have a handgun available as an option for home defense, shotguns are definitely the superior choice for that.
#103 Jun 13 2009 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
As I recall, the Zombie Survival Guide rates shotguns as a pretty poor weapon for anti-zombie use. A nice handgun is rated higher.

It's written purely for entertainment purposes, so take it with a grain of salt. I sincerely doubt the author has any real experience against zombies.
#104 Jun 13 2009 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
As I recall, the Zombie Survival Guide rates shotguns as a pretty poor weapon for anti-zombie use. A nice handgun is rated higher.

And a crowbar is rated as the top anti zombie melee weapon, since it has utility as well as being an excellent blunt force weapon.
Actually, a handgun is rated below a shotgun (because you have to be right near the zombie, which fucks with your accuracy).

The prime firearm for anti-zombie use is a semi-automatic rifle.

(As far as melee weapons, they recommend having a crowbar for general use, along with a good sword and possibly a trench spike.)
#105 Jun 13 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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That depends on the behavior of the zombies. If they're going off of the slow moving, mindless zombism, then yeah, a semi-automatic rifle would go a long way. If they're the enraged, hyperactive breed of zombie, then a shotgun would provide to be fairly potent.
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#106 Jun 13 2009 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
As I recall, the Zombie Survival Guide rates shotguns as a pretty poor weapon for anti-zombie use. A nice handgun is rated higher.

It's written purely for entertainment purposes, so take it with a grain of salt. I sincerely doubt the author has any real experience against zombies.


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#107 Jun 13 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Karelyn,

As a lesbian, why would you vote Conservative?


Fiscal conservative =/= social conservative.
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#108 Jun 13 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Timelordwho wrote:
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Karelyn,

As a lesbian, why would you vote Conservative?
Fiscal conservative =/= social conservative.
This. Cutting government spending is more important than discontinuing discrimination.




Edited, Jun 14th 2009 2:06am by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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#109 Jun 13 2009 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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They aren't mutually exclusive.
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#110 Jun 13 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
They aren't mutually exclusive.
A vast majority of the time they are.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#111 Jun 13 2009 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
It's written purely for entertainment purposes, so take it with a grain of salt. I sincerely doubt the author has any real experience against zombies.


He does in World War Z.

Quote:
Fiscal Conservative =/= Social Conservative


Well, unless she's a very rich lesbian, it'd be silly for her to vote Republican as she'd benefit more from the Liberal economic policies & social programs. I "get" why the rich vote Republican, as Conservative fiscal policy allows them to keep more of their money.

I don't get why, say, one of the poor gun nuts in northern NH votes Republican as liberal economic policy will provide him with more $ to buy more (legal & registered!) guns.

Ya, he's going to have to give the AK back, but the liberals are so nice they'll even pay him for giving it back.

(With the tax money they got from a Rich guy)


Edited, Jun 14th 2009 3:20am by Omegavegeta
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#112 Jun 13 2009 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
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A vast majority of the time they are.


False.

Also, Conservative =/= Republican.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 3:23am by Timelordwho
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#113 Jun 14 2009 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
A vast majority of the time they are.

In what way? You don't have to pay white people not to hate black people. I mean I hope not, because if so then I'm getting totally ripped off by the government.
#114 Jun 14 2009 at 12:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
The Unions killed them.

Hurt them. Unions made their labor costs higher than foreign manufacturers, but they were still building the wrong types of cars.

American cars were seen as big, powerful. It's rare for me to see an American car commercial that doesn't advertise horsepower. Foreign made cars were generally viewed as more reliable and fuel efficient. When gas prices climb customer price sensitivity to complimentary goods all climbs. People wanted more MPG. The trend of environmentalism among consumers was also foreseeable. People prefer to at least believe they are helping the environment. And the bulk of consumers don't need the excessive horsepower often offered in American cars.

Hummers and four door pickup trucks represent the bulk of why GM failed.


Hummer was never a big part of GM's buissiness, and the cars they did sell on that line were rediculously overpriced to the point of insanity. The trucks they did sell did well in the lower cost sector of the construction market, but they really couldn't compete well with the chevy and ford trucks.

MPG is playing a major role in car sales at the moment, but for the last 10 years or so when GM was still steadily declining, it really wasn't a concern. It's not just the higher labor costs per person, it's the much higher labor force required to build the same car. People with 3 kids still need a larger car.

The engine costs for higher horsepower vs a more fuel efficient engine are really a wash from a materials and engineering standpoint. The more fuel efficient designs tend to need better manufacturing tolerances in common with the higher horsepower models anyways. The Japanese control the major aluminum refineries these days, so they can get materials cheaper for higher end engine blocks. They control the robotics sector and can get equipment cheaper. they have more of it, they use it better, and they can shed unproductive workforce members at will.

A high horsepower car is not necessarily at odds with a fuel efficient design. The V8 blocks that can shut off and seal 4 cylandars at will when the extra horsepower is not needed work quite well, but right now they cost too much to see them in many more than the higher end luxury designs.

The reputation for crap cars certanly hurt them, but I really think type of car was completely irrelevent to the failure.
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#115 Jun 14 2009 at 1:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course correlation doesn't imply causation, but Ford, GM, and Chrysler have had consistently low average MPG in most categories. MPG has become much more important recently, but it was still important 10 years ago. Compare 1990 with the gas guzzling attitude of the 50s and there is a strong contrast.

Whether it affects fuel efficiency or cost, high horsepower is not a concern fro many Americans. Why pay more for something they won't need?

Most consumers today tend to care about cost, safety, reliability/quality, and fuel efficiency. This is how many foreign manufactures are presenting their products. American manufacturers have been advertising and designing around size and power.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 4:45am by Allegory
#116 Jun 14 2009 at 5:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Karelyn,

As a lesbian, why would you vote Conservative?

Because the person I'm in love with and spending the rest of my life with, has little to nothing to do with the way I think the government should be financially and politically ran?

Even on the subject of social issues, the issue of gay marriage is only a relatively insignificant portion of a greater social issues that involves things like unions, welfare, etc.

Not to mention that Conservatives are mostly ambivalent on gay marriage, mostly of the position that "It shouldn't matter if two men or two women want to marry."

You are confusing Fundamentalist Christians with Conservatives. Unfortunately, the mainstream conservative political party in America, the Republicans, are pandering to Fundamentalist Christians in order to get their vote, even though easily more than half of Republican politicians up in Congress think gay marriage should be legalized.

If I wanted to, I could probably name a long list of dozens of political issues (probably over a hundred issues) which are more important than gay marriage. It's utterly disgusting that gay marriage is currently one of the big three hot topic issues in America.

I would consider myself one of the dumb masses, if I was to vote purely based on such an insignificant issue. Hardly any better than the people who vote for a president because they like his haircut, like the election is some sort of an American Idol knockoff show.

To pull up a nice (and extremely sarcastic) quote from Neal Boortz...
Neal Boortz wrote:
We don't need tax reform. We don't need an end to earmark pork spending in Congress. We don't need smaller government and school choice. We don't need real reform that would put medical care back into the competitive marketplace. We need none of those things. All is fine! What we need is a Constitutional Amendment that will keep two people who love each other, but who we don't consider to be normal -- not by our standards anyway -- to marry.

Meh, not the quote I was looking for. I wanted the one he currently uses as his commercial (his commercial no less!) for advertising his show on the radio, which basically is around 80 seconds of telling people they are ****ing morons for giving a **** if two people want to get married, and how if they don't seriously shut the **** up about it, they are going to make Republicans continue to lose elections.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 9:24am by Karelyn
#117 Jun 14 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Well, unless she's a very rich lesbian, it'd be silly for her to vote Republican as she'd benefit more from the Liberal economic policies & social programs. I "get" why the rich vote Republican, as Conservative fiscal policy allows them to keep more of their money.

I'm Lower Middle Class. 30k yearly.

Yes I would benefit from liberal economic policies in the short term. They are unsustainable though.

There is also the trickle down effect. The better that the rich are doing, the better their business will do (unless they are utterly crooked like ENRON, but that's an entirely different issue), which means more people get hired and get better paid. The same thing of course, happens in reverse. You raise taxes on rich business owners, they respond by raising the prices on the things we buy, because the money has to come from somewhere.

The problem is that liberal economic policies are fundamentally flawed, and ultimately hurt the lower and middle class instead of help them.

...

Likewise, I have never approved of hand-outs. Just because you can get something, doesn't mean you should. Are there people who legitimately should be on government welfare? Yes, I have met plenty of them.

I have also met people who should be on welfare, but chose to take a higher route, work anyway, and live their lives the way they want to. I know someone who is missing both her right leg and right arm, refuses welfare, works for her living, and owns and raises horses. Is she an extreme example? Hell ****ing yeah. Is she still awesome? Hell ****ing yeah.

I have also met tons of people, who's only "disability" is nothing more than abject laziness. My "In-laws" would easily fall under this category. They have never worked a day in their lives, yet they are completely capable of working, with nothing that would prevent them from doing so. Their attitude is "What can I get people to give me?" And they regularly have no qualms about lying about their status in order to get more money, or free food, or whatever it is they are trying to get free at any one day. As far as I'm concerned, such an attitude is disgusting.

If my "in-laws" ever had their means of welfare taken away from them, with zero prospect of them ever getting something for free again... I guarantee within a week, all of them would have a job, and supporting themselves.

Just because you can get something, doesn't mean you deserve it. Social Programs, welfare, etc, should only be going to people who are legitimately incapable of supporting themselves. I can tell you, it isn't even remotely close to that.

...

Besides, even among social programs, I agree more with the Conservative style of social programs, which come in the form of money that you receive only if you improve your social status, instead of maintaining the status quo.

If anything, welfare encourages people to do worse in their life. Which is utterly horrible in my opinion.

My opinion on social issues can mostly be summed up in three lines...
1. Achievement and success should be rewarded.
2. Laziness and underachieving should not be rewarded.
3. The truly incapable should be supported.


The problem with liberal social politics, is that they have 1 and 2 mixed up.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 9:49am by Karelyn
#118 Jun 14 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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There is also the trickle down effect.


Heh.
#119 Jun 14 2009 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
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There is also the trickle down effect.

Heh.

Crude term or not. It is more or less a fact of life that will always be around.

Unless you can someone enact some sorta utopian socialism, where everyone gets paid exactly the same amount of goods, and nobody ever has to purchase anything, because everything is free. And everyone is happy and willing to do the more difficult jobs, even though they could do an easier job and receive the same benefit out of it, or even not work at all and receive the same benefit.

Yeah, if we ever obtain such a utopian society, then the trickle down effect will stop happening.

...

Back in the real world, you cannot tax businesses. You can pretend to tax businesses, but when all is said and done, you've only succeeded in taxing people. When you tax businesses, one of two things happen. Employees get fired or prices go up. Businesses have a budget to balance, and the money has to come from somewhere.

It happens in reverse too. The more money a business is making, the more employees they hire, and the better the employees' pay and benefits become.

Of course, there is a logical limit to the effectiveness in either direction (Yay for Gaussian distribution and bell curves! Statistics is so sexy). But the general principle still stands and functions in the real world whether you like it or not.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 10:36am by Karelyn
#120 Jun 14 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
Crude term or not. It's more or less a fact of life that will always be around.


Haha.

I really don't have time to get into this with you right now.
#121 Jun 14 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
Karelyn wrote:

It happens in reverse too. The more money a business is making, the more employees they hire, and the better the employees' pay and benefits become.


Or, the number of employees stays the same as does their compensation and the business owner just gets a little wealthier.

Quote:
My opinion on social issues can mostly be summed up in three lines...
1. Achievement and success should be rewarded.
2. Laziness and underachieving should not be rewarded.
3. The truly incapable should be supported.


Seriously? Amongst the miasma of assorted social issues clamoring for our attention welfare is the only one that even makes your radar?
#122 Jun 14 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Grandfather Barkingturtle wrote:
Or, the number of employees stays the same as does their compensation and the business owner just gets a little wealthier.

And the business eventually falls behind (or farther behind) other businesses it is competing with.

Quote:
Seriously? Amongst the miasma of assorted social issues clamoring for our attention welfare is the only one that even makes your radar?

No. It's one social issue I picked to talk about; chosen in-part because I consider it to be one of the more noticeably ****ed up things right now (It's kinda hard not to notice when your "in-laws" are of the variety of people who steal tax dollars via welfare they do not come even remotely close to needing).

It would be easy to write an entire book (or even a series of books) on assorted social issues. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to read a few hundred pages of writing by me, or anyone else on this forum. I already stretch the limits of people's patience with multiple posts that are over a page in length. That is why I picked a single issue to talk about. Not because other issues do not make my radar.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 10:46am by Karelyn
#123 Jun 14 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
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As I recall, the Zombie Survival Guide rates shotguns as a pretty poor weapon for anti-zombie use. A nice handgun is rated higher.


He also recommends katanas. ZSG is perhaps the most excoriated and reviled book on the subject that I've ever seen. Some of the things that he says are just @#%^ing idiotic. His writing in WWZ was, however, spectacular, and many of the stories struck some deep chords, such as the one where the family moves to canada, or the one where the lady is airmailing food to miami or something and has to bail out. His advice and occasional self-referential ************* Not so much.
Quote:

Just because you can get something, doesn't mean you deserve it. Social Programs, welfare, etc, should only be going to people who are legitimately incapable of supporting themselves. I can tell you, it isn't even remotely close to that.


No one in society actually supports themselves.

***


Quote:
And the business eventually falls behind (or farther behind) other businesses it is competing with.


Not when they have a ******* monopoly.

Hi gamestop.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 11:05am by Pensive
#124 Jun 14 2009 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
Karelyn wrote:

It would be easy to write an entire book (or even a series of books) on assorted social issues. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to read a few hundred pages of writing by me, or anyone else on this forum. I already stretch the limits of people's patience with multiple posts that are over a page in length. That is why I picked a single issue to talk about. Not because other issues do not make my radar.


Ah, s'pose I was just confused by this, then:

Quote:
My opinion on social issues can mostly be summed up in three lines...
Three lines about welfare


Sort of made it sound like, well, you know. However, the fact that you choose to focus on an issue that is on your doorstep, and fail to place other, more meaningful issues which don't touch you personally higher on your list, suggests a real lack of humanity on your part(not surprising, seeing as you're a lesbian and all) and I think you should probably be as ashamed of yourself personally as pubbies are of their party as a whole. I've always thought conservatives could benefit from a pinch of altruism more than anything else, an embracing of the idea that we are all in this together, instead of operating under the ethos of: I am here and they are here for me to step on.


#125REDACTED, Posted: Jun 14 2009 at 7:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You just said that tax cuts on businesses makes them fall behind competitors, btw. You should probably learn to read or something.
#126 Jun 14 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Karelyn wrote:
Grandfather Barkingturtle wrote:
Or, the number of employees stays the same as does their compensation and the business owner just gets a little wealthier.

And the business eventually falls behind (or farther behind) other businesses it is competing with.


You just said that tax cuts on businesses makes them fall behind competitors, btw. You should probably learn to read or something.


Actually, she just said that poor business decisions (what to do with the extra money from tax cuts) makes them fall behind.

No need to make really stupid assumptions Kavekk, regardless of your position.
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