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More Obama lies...ignored by the MSMFollow

#127 Jun 11 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
CBD wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Jerusalem is not nearly as holy to Islam as it is for Christianity and Judaism.


I'm not sure how you'd measure this, exactly. It's the third most holy city in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

Does that mean it's "less" holy to Muslims than to Christians and Jews?



Sort of? I don't think it's as accurate to claim that the Muslim community will want to march on Jerusalem much like Christians wanted to march on Jersualem. If we plopped Israel down right around Mecca, it would be a better comparison.

Edited, Jun 11th 2009 3:31pm by CBD
#128 Jun 11 2009 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
Samira wrote:
CBD wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Jerusalem is not nearly as holy to Islam as it is for Christianity and Judaism.


I'm not sure how you'd measure this, exactly. It's the third most holy city in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

Does that mean it's "less" holy to Muslims than to Christians and Jews?


I guess you'd have to weigh up being third place on the Muslim holy city list against the apathy of the majority of Christians. I'd guess that the Jews would win. Furthermore, a piece of string is two meters long, the worth of man is £34.58, and a woodchuck could chuck a very small amount of wood, if it could chuck a very small amount of wood.
#129 Jun 11 2009 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, the fact that Jerusalem had to be divided three ways argues differently; but perhaps you're right.

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#130 Jun 11 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
I'm not sure how you'd measure this, exactly. It's the third most holy city in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

Does that mean it's "less" holy to Muslims than to Christians and Jews?
Well, if you're talking real Christians, it's certainly no Vatican City.
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#131 Jun 11 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
I'm not sure how you'd measure this, exactly. It's the third most holy city in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

Does that mean it's "less" holy to Muslims than to Christians and Jews?
Well, if you're talking real Christians, it's certainly no Vatican City.


And if you're talking real Jews, it's no Miami either.

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#132 Jun 11 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
I'm not sure how you'd measure this, exactly. It's the third most holy city in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

Does that mean it's "less" holy to Muslims than to Christians and Jews?
Well, if you're talking real Christians, it's certainly no Vatican City.


The Vatican's a nice place, but I'm glad I waited until I was over twelve before I went.
#133 Jun 11 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
The Vatican's a nice place, but I'm glad I waited until I was over twelve before I went.
Tip your waitress, try the veal.
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#134 Jun 11 2009 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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CBD wrote:
Lemme restate that. I didn't say it very clearly.

I'm pretty sure that Jerusalem is not nearly as holy to Islam as it is for Christianity and Judaism..


It's still pretty damn holy. The Al-Aqsa Mosque is the largest in the Arab world, and is supposedly the site where Mohammed received the word of God from Gabriel.

It used to be the most holy spot in Islam, for this exact reason, but after Mohammed's death the focus shifted to the towns of Mecca and Medina, which are closer to Islam's birth in the little strip of coastline called the Hijaz. You're probably accurate in saying that Jerusalem is, I don't know, less holy, or less sacrosanct, for this reason. Muslims can tolerate non-Muslims in Jerusalem. They won't even let non-Muslims fly over the Hijaz. Planes carrying non-Muslims have to divert, and in-flight toilets are locked.
#135 Jun 11 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
CBD wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Jerusalem is not nearly as holy to Islam as it is for Christianity and Judaism.


I'm not sure how you'd measure this, exactly. It's the third most holy city in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.

Does that mean it's "less" holy to Muslims than to Christians and Jews?

I thought Christianity's holy land moved to Branson, Missouri.

#136REDACTED, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 5:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) More Obama lies;
#137 Jun 12 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
More Obama lies;

Quote:
President Obama has proposed that Congress create a new public health plan to compete with private health plans in a national health insurance exchange. The President says that Congress can create a "level playing field"


So can anyone explain how govn taking over "level's the playing field"?


Going with the "Obama common-sense approach," I would guess it means that affordable health care coverage that is universal means the current private providers will need to start lowering their prices or offering vastly superior service. Right now for 47 million Americans, there is no playing field. Giving them coverage gets them into the game; it is then up to the private companies to figure out if it's worth trying to get them into their plans.

Not saying it's right, but if I was one of those 47 million I'd be glad to get something. No matter how you look at it, health insurance is crazy high.
#138REDACTED, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 5:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#139 Jun 12 2009 at 5:51 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Locked,

Quote:
Going with the "Obama common-sense approach," I would guess it means that affordable health care coverage that is universal means the current private providers will need to start lowering their prices or offering vastly superior service.


Keep guessing, I mean you have to with Obama running the show.

And you're a f*cking tool if you think govn intruding into private health insurance is going to lower costs or offer a superior service. All it will do is force insurance companies to get out of the health insurance business. Then you'll have to deal with the federal govn on their terms or go without. You can't be that stupid.



You asked how it would level the playing field. I responded. Stay on topic, young Padawan.
Quote:
Obama acknowledged he supports what is called the national option, saying it would increase competition for private plans. At the same time, the president insisted a national plan would be one of many choices as part of reforms intended to strengthen the U.S. system.

"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor," he said to applause. "If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan."

...

We have to ask why places like the Geisinger Health System in rural Pennsylvania, Intermountain Health in Salt Lake City, or communities like Green Bay can offer high-quality care at costs well below average, but other places in America can't," Obama said. He tried to sell the crowd on his "common-sense" approach to health care reform, saying that the quality of care won't diminish for any Americans.


Going from his own quotes, "leveling the playing field" (please offer a source so I can see the context in which it was said) either means:
1. It forces current health insurance providers to lower costs, allowing poorer folks to buy in.
2. It will offer more standardized care.

As for your new comment, no, I think it will lead to lower costs, but I agree that quality of care might go down for those can afford it. Right now a lot of people cannot afford ANY health care. If there is a government program their care will only go up. A lot of people who are using private health care usually have premiums they need to meet to get that care. Or they have limited providers. The problem is that millions of people ARE going without right now... because they have no other choice.

When you having nothing, anything is usually better. I'm not one of those people, but I am interested in seeing what the new options would be. I worry for my parents, especially my father, who pays over a thousand dollars for himself ALONE each month. That's ridiculous. Luckily he's still working, but if something ever happened to his job he'd have to get off insurance and pray that he never gets sick or hurt. Many Americans are at that point, or just can't afford it.

If this hurts anyone it's young people, as our costs are lower right now. For baby boomers, this program will be a necessity. I mean, or you could argue that it's cool to let them all go without any medical help and let the first bad thing to happen to them be the last one. I just have a personal stake in it (parents, grandparents), and would like to see the options.
#140REDACTED, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 6:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#141 Jun 12 2009 at 6:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Food, Shelter, and Insurance...in that order. Work 3 jobs if you have to.
Spoken like a scared insurance salesman Smiley: laugh
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#142REDACTED, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 6:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#143 Jun 12 2009 at 6:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
I don't sell health insurance simply because of people like yourself.
Umm... ok?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#144REDACTED, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 6:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#145 Jun 12 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
In reality if forces current health insurance providers out of business.


Yeah, hi. No. There's too much money to be made.

Quote:
Do you think the rates are just arbitrarily decided?


Why, no. I think they ***** people over for every dime they can get, and have done for years and years.

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#146REDACTED, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 6:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#147 Jun 12 2009 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
manicshock wrote:
It was a generalization on the "all muslims hate Jews" although most do. But pretty much every country near Israel (namely the Arabs, but others including Iran) do not like them. The hatred originated from Jacob and Esau. And Esau's line is what created the muslims. Which didn't start until the 6th-7th century. It was because of something that happened 3.8 thousand years ago that they have animosity towards Israel.


This is such ********* Coupled with gbaji's revisionist historical analysis of the Israel/Palestine conflict, I really wonder how and what they teach ME History in the US.

Muslims and Jews cohabited perfectly peacefully for the last 1500 years. There were around 140,000 Jews in Iraq in 1948. 150,000 in Iran. 250,000 in Morocco. 140,000 in Algeria. Almost 100,000 in Egypt. They had their own communities, and lived peacefully in the midst of overwhelmingly Muslim countries. The "hatred" between Muslims and Jews is a relatively new phenomenon, and is largely the result of the creation of Israel, and the subsequent historical developments. Muslims never had a problem with Jews. Muslim countries had a problem with the creation of Israel by Western imperialists. It's not quite the same.
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#148 Jun 12 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually a foreign corporation provides my job. If I get laid off I can continue my insurance.... for more than I pay for my flat.

Health insurance companies have had it all their way for decades, because people are afraid to go without coverage. They buffaloed doctors and hospitals into buying into the HMO Ponzi scam by sounding alarms about huge malpractice settlements, many of which were greatly reduced in the event - not that you ever heard about that. Malpractice insurance carriers opened the door, and health insurance carriers (often owned by the same corporation) walked right in and started dictating what people could and could not do, and how much they'd pay for the privilege of being told what they could and could not do.

I'd think a libertarian such as yourself would be happy about giving people more choices. That's all this is: offering competition so that the players on the field have to step up their game and offer more value or lower rates.

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#149 Jun 12 2009 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I really wonder how and what they teach ME History in the US.
In schools? They don't.
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Belkira wrote:
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#150 Jun 12 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I really wonder how and what they teach ME History in the US.
In schools? They don't.


We only ever covered the Middle East in world history as a footnote about the Crusades.

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#151 Jun 12 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I really wonder how and what they teach ME History in the US.
In schools? They don't.


We only ever covered the Middle East in world history as a footnote about the Crusades.


Same here. World history back in 10th grade talked a lot about India and China. Grade 11 was US history and grade 12 was European history.

We never really had Middle Eastern history. Thinking back that seems like a pretty big oversight!
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