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Forced SacrificesFollow

#52 Jun 02 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Everything is Obama's fault now. He inherited a shiny jewel of awesomeness and has since ruined it.

varrus wrote:
I know you're blinded by raging partisanship
Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 11:53am by Xsarus
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#53 Jun 02 2009 at 8:56 AM Rating: Default
Cat,

Quote:
Also, this sh*t is not Obama's fault. Bush Jr. cannot simultaneously take credit for inheriting the Clinton economy when times were good and avoid responsibility for passing on the current economy to Obama. If Bush Jr. really had nothing to do with our present state of awful, then he also had nothing to do with the pre-2005 good times.


Granted but this whole mess started when fannie and freddie began loaning money to people who should never have received a loan. And the economy was good under the Clinton era because of the dot.com bubble, which burst just as his presidency was ending. Not only that but W was handed a war that Clinton refused to deal with. Barely a year in office and the center of the US financial world was attacked.
#54 Jun 02 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Not only that but W was handed a war that Clinton refused to deal with. Barely a year in office and the center of the US financial world was attacked.
Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughNice revisionist view of history there, chief.
#55 Jun 02 2009 at 8:58 AM Rating: Default
Xarus,

Quote:
Everything is Obama's fault now. He inherited a shiny jewel of awesomeness and has since ruined it.


No he was handed a faltering economy and has used that as an excuse to take control of the banks and the auto industry. If the people were confident in Obama's plan the economy would be reacting positively. As it stands people are now seeing Obama for what he is and are scared sh*tless.
#56 Jun 02 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
Oh, that explains Obama's 60% approval ratings. People are scared ******** of him.
#57 Jun 02 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Xarus,

Quote:
Everything is Obama's fault now. He inherited a shiny jewel of awesomeness and has since ruined it.


No he was handed a faltering economy and has used that as an excuse to take control of the banks and the auto industry. If the people were confident in Obama's plan the economy would be reacting positively. As it stands people are now seeing Obama for what he is and are scared sh*tless.
Actually the market has been on the rise for the last 2 months or so, after bottoming out pretty damn low.

And I'd say the government has a right to take a controlling stake in the companies it's bailed out. Particularly after Bush & Co. gave those same companies hundreds of billions last fall that sort of just vanished.
#58 Jun 02 2009 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho the Pest wrote:
Oh, that explains Obama's 60% approval ratings. People are scared sh*tless of him.

The liberal media has manipulated the public into believing policies like credit card reform benefit them.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 1:15pm by Allegory
#59 Jun 02 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
No he was handed a faltering economy and has used that as an excuse to take control of the banks and the auto industry. If the people were confident in Obama's plan the economy would be reacting positively. As it stands people are now seeing Obama for what he is and are scared sh*tless.

I, for one, would not like to see what this country would be like without banks and cars.

There are very obvious flaws in a purely capitalistic economy; we've been operating under the "make a big buck and fuCk everyone else" premise for too long and guess what? We were all getting fuCked.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#60 Jun 02 2009 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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[quote]
I, for one, would not like to see what this country would be like without banks and cars.

There are very obvious flaws in a purely capitalistic economy; we've been operating under the "make a big buck and **** everyone else" premise for too long and guess what? We were all getting ***************

Capitalism is extremely good at accomplishing it's intended purpose.

Unfortunately most people misconstrue it's purpose.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 2:19pm by Timelordwho
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#61 Jun 02 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
The purpose being, of course, to make money any legal way possible. That's why companies that really make money are ones that exist in sectors that are still unregulated, and why they sometimes end up facing criminal charges as a result.
#62REDACTED, Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 11:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You people think the current economic situation is due to a failure of capitalism? No wonder most of you aren't in the top tax bracket. When big brother forces companies to loan people money the banks know can't pay it back that's not capitalism. When a union forces a company to operate at a loss for years on end with the expectation of a govn bailout that's not capitalism. You people are so stupid it hurts.
#63 Jun 02 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Wow!

Thats gotta be the longest post I've ever seen from varus!


And s'cuse me for not reading the whole thread, but is the US Government making cars now?
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#64 Jun 02 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
publiusvarus wrote:
When the govn gets out of the way profitable companies step up.
Actually, when the government gets in the way, profitable companies step up as well.

Specifically, profitable companies in illegal fields. The government gets in the way - say, the War on Drugs - and their profits increase.
#65 Jun 02 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
You people think the current economic situation is due to a failure of capitalism? No wonder most of you aren't in the top tax bracket. When big brother forces companies to loan people money the banks know can't pay it back that's not capitalism. When a union forces a company to operate at a loss for years on end with the expectation of a govn bailout that's not capitalism. You people are so stupid it hurts.
Not that I expect you to have any actual knowledge about this, but the car companies took the easy route when the benefits were cheap to achieve short term gain. By giving the union benefits when everything was going well and they were cheap, they saved money on actual pay. Of course this backfired in the long run.

No one was forcing private companies to give people loans. They did this because the market allowed them to hide the risk.
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#66 Jun 02 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:

And most people are idiots.



As you so aptly demonstrate on a daily basis. Go back to tending your pigs and leave economics to the intelligent people.
#67 Jun 02 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default
Paula,

Quote:
And s'cuse me for not reading the whole thread, but is the US Government making cars now?


No the US govn is just telling the companies they buy which cars they are going to be making and using take payer money to buy them for govn officials.


Ambrya,

Quote:
As you so aptly demonstrate on a daily basis. Go back to tending your pigs and leave economics to the intelligent people.


Tell me again how much you earn annually? I need a good laugh.


Xarus,

Quote:
No one was forcing private companies to give people loans. They did this because the market allowed them to hide the risk.


That's exactly what they were doing.

Quote:
Be that as it may, with the housing market in freefall, the government can't afford to let the GSEs fail. Not only do they own or guarantee about half of the $12 trillion in U.S. mortgages, Fannie and Freddie securities have become major holdings for foreign central banks that, like the rest of the market, have come to expect the federal government to stand behind those securities.


http://online.barrons.com/article/SB121577266165245627.html?mod=googlenews_barrons

Now come talk to me about communism and state control.
#68 Jun 02 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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No the US govn is just telling the companies they buy which cars they are going to be making and using take payer money to buy them for govn officials



You're trying too hard.


Edit: Red is right, you should read the stuff you link.

From the article you linked, second paragraph:

Quote:
the Bush administration is mulling a plan for the government to take over the GSEs if their problems worsen.


That damn commie *******!

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 8:36pm by feelz

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 8:37pm by feelz
#69 Jun 02 2009 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Does Obama even know what the word sacrifice means? I'm quite sure the 20,000+ employees who lost their jobs know what the word means.



I remember when threads with this title would have referred to the fact that there has been (as of this week) over 5000 American deaths in the neverending (?never to end?) wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And now the word 'sacrifice' is attached to threads concerning people losing their jobs.

How times and priorities change.
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#70 Jun 02 2009 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
Personally, i think we should have just let GM die. There are much better car companies out there i would rather buy from, and i dont like the fact that the government is spending billions of dollars on an outdated fad. GM's fate has been sealed, Obama is only postponing the inevitable.
#71 Jun 02 2009 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
You people think the current economic situation is due to a failure of capitalism? No wonder most of you aren't in the top tax bracket.


You are?
#72 Jun 02 2009 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Obama is only postponing the inevitable.


He sure is! He's postponing the fact that GM will inevitably emerge from bankruptcy stronger in a few months. While, at the same time, also saving a company that's an American institution & saving (some) jobs.

Yet you say it like it's a bad thing.

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#73 Jun 02 2009 at 11:53 PM Rating: Default
Omegavegeta wrote:
Quote:
Obama is only postponing the inevitable.


He sure is! He's postponing the fact that GM will inevitably emerge from bankruptcy stronger in a few months. While, at the same time, also saving a company that's an American institution & saving (some) jobs.

Yet you say it like it's a bad thing.



It's a bad thing that he's spending my tax dollars on a second-rate car company I had never heard of till a few days ago.
#74 Jun 03 2009 at 2:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zaikimaliki the Vile wrote:
It's a bad thing that he's spending my tax dollars on a second-rate car company I had never heard of till a few days ago.
Your communication skills are exceptional for a 2 week old infant.
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#75 Jun 03 2009 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's a bad thing that he's spending my tax dollars on a second-rate car company I had never heard of till a few days ago.


You had never heard of GM before? Really? Let me list some things for you:

Buick
Chevy
Cadillac


Seriously?
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#76 Jun 03 2009 at 3:56 AM Rating: Default
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Not only that but W was handed a war that Clinton refused to deal with. Barely a year in office and the center of the US financial world was attacked


No he wasn't. He didn't need to invade Afganistan or Iraq. And I guarantee that if he had still done everything else he did aside from invading those other countries, we still would not have seen a major terrorist attack on American soil in the years since. And with Iraq, he ended up just pissing them off more. I'm still waiting for some good justification for fighting that war.

Quote:
No he was handed a faltering economy and has used that as an excuse to take control of the banks and the auto industry


As far as the banks go, this isn't a bad thing. As far as the auto industry goes...we'll find out in the coming months and years whether or not it's a good thing or not.

Quote:
If the people were confident in Obama's plan the economy would be reacting positively.


Not necessarily. During The Great Depression, both Hoover and FDR did a lot to try and fix the economy then and it still took years for it to finally come back up. Obama is doing what he feels is right, only time will tell whether or not it was the right thing for the economy in the long run. The economy isn't going to be fixed tomorrow, or the day after that, or next month, and maybe not even next year, but by taking the steps that have already been taken as well as those yet to have been taken, we are making sure that the economy won't be **** forever. It will recover, just not in such a short time. Anyone who thinks otherwise knows even less about economics than I do, and I know next to nothing.

Quote:
As it stands people are now seeing Obama for what he is and are scared sh*tless.


Recent Polls:

Fox News

Rasmussen Reports:

Quote:
Overall, 58% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance so far. Forty-one percent (41%) disapprove.


Gallup

New York Times

Quote:
While the public seems prepared to give Mr. Obama time, Americans clearly expect the country to be a different place when he finishes his term at the end of 2012.

The poll found that 75 percent expected the economy to be stronger in four years than it is today, and 75 percent said Mr. Obama would succeed in creating a significant number of jobs, while 59 percent said he would cut taxes for the middle class.

The survey found that 61 percent of respondents said things would be better in five years; last April, just 39 percent expressed a similar sentiment.

The telephone survey of 1,112 adults was conducted Jan. 11-15. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

The poll suggests some of the cross-currents Mr. Obama is navigating as he prepares to take office, and offers some evidence about why he has retooled some of his positions during this period.



MSNBC

I'm tired of posting links and quotes from articles. I think I've got a half-decent mix of sources there.

Quote:
You people think the current economic situation is due to a failure of capitalism?


No. I think it's due to several different problems and issues that were left ignored over the last 10 years. I'm not going to get into them though because I don't want my post to take up an entire page.

Quote:
No wonder most of you aren't in the top tax bracket.


I'm not in the top tax bracket because my parents weren't rich, I had just slightly above average marks in high school, I don't have money to go to college, my credit rating is neither good or bad so no one is about to give me a student loan, and i live in Thunder Bay, ON. The only people here in the top tax bracket are those who either won the lottery, or were born into money.

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You're a f*cking idiot. When the govn gets out of the way profitable companies step up.


Yes, they step up, but with no government intervention or control, they do the same ******** that helped create the current economic situation because the people who run these companies prefer to line their pockets instead of make their product any better, serve their customers any better, or pay their employees any more than minimum wage(which is quite low in many states and nearly impossible to live on with all the added expenses that come with living in the USA).

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And most people are idiots.


You don't give enough credit to the people of your country.

Quote:
No the US govn is just telling the companies they buy which cars they are going to be making and using take payer money to buy them for govn officials.


The US government should be telling the companies to make cars that are more easily marketable to the average consumer. As far as that lest part, SOURCE PLEASE.

Quote:
Tell me again how much you earn annually? I need a good laugh.


I don't know about Ambrya, but last year, I earned approximately 24k. It will be slightly less this year as I do not work 3 jobs or run a business anymore. But that's a different story. How much someone earns has nothing to do with how well read they might be about a certain topic.

Quote:
That's exactly what they were doing.


Umm, I don't understand this part. Clarify.

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Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
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