Bad WordsFollow

I hate when people talk about their clients' "behaviors," instead of their behavior.

I'm not sure you can deny that language is subjective to the majority opinion. If the majority pronounce word x in one way, then that is the correct pronunciation, irrespective of your individual opinion on the matter.

I'm not saying this is the case with those words, I'm just pointing out that just because people in some other part of the English-speaking world pronounce a word differently to you doesn't make them some sort of linguistic philistine. They may simply live around a bunch of other people who pronounce the word that way. It's why dictionaries contain multiple possible - and presumably valid - pronunciations.

If, however, their mispronunciation is both unique and ludicrous, like "nukular" then you may lol at their expense until your sides hurt.

Edited, May 31st 2009 8:55am by zepoodle

That's where you slip up. If we're asking a factual question, like "Is this a rock?" or "Is the world flat?" then the correct answer can be easily found after some old-fashioned scientific investigation. My opinions regarding the rock or the shape of the planet aren't going to change the fact that rocks are hard and the planet is roughly spherical. Where I to hold that the rock in front of me was made of cheese, or that the planet was flat, I would simply be incorrect. Even if everyone on this round Earth thought that it was flat, that would not change the fact that it is indeed round.

We're not asking that kind of question, though. This is a subjective question, like "How much is this rock worth?" The answer to that question varies depending on the person asking and the person answering. Currency and worth are things that we apply to objects. The exact value of a dollar changes all the time in relation to how much people value it. If I was on a desert island, diamonds would be worthless and fresh, potable water would be immensely valuable. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking, if I were in France, I couldn't buy anything with my dollar. I'd need euros, because no-one around me recognises the value of the dollar. In real life I'd go to a currency exchange, but you get the point.

The question we're asking is "What is the correct pronunciation of word W?" The answer isn't objective. Word W doesn't have an pronunciation outside of the language given to us by God that you and everyone else has to adhere to. Whatever pronunciation that most people use is, by definition, the correct one. Similarly, if everyone in the world but me called rocks "trees", and by "tree" they referred to that object I would call a rock, then the correct word for rock would actually be "tree" by majority consensus, and I would be incorrect in referring to the "trees" as rocks.

tl;dr: Language, like currency, is subjective.



That's the point I was making though. You're mistaken in assuming that it's a case of ignorance. One can be ignorant of facts, but "the pronunciation of word W" isn't a hard, scientific fact. Things like the speed of an object falling in a vacuum, or the atomic number of gold - those are facts. The words "gold", "atomic number" and "vacuum", however, are subject to change depending on use. The other option - that words have meaning independent of language - is pretty absurd.

You're talking about the destruction of the English language, but you're looking at it from the wrong angle. If the process we're observing today is the destruction of the English language, then English has been destroying itself basically ever since the first Englishman opened his mouth. The English language is evolving, and refusing to accept that is really just stubbornness.

As a side note, historically speaking, no-one ever actually thought the world was flat. Not since ancient Greece, anyway.

Edited, May 31st 2009 8:53am by zepoodle

One of the words I hate the most that is used constantly: "remarkably". It's redundant by its very nature and therefor drives me insane.

Nexa

I used to pronounce "Finite" as Finn - it, because of the pronunciation of the word "Infinite"

That's because you're an cnut

No really, that's not unintentional misuse. It's a joke.

Person X saw the word "foyer" and, instead of looking up the pronunciation, assumed it was pronounced phonetically and used it that way in conversation with Person Y. Person Y then incorporated that incorrect pronunciation into their vocabulary and went on to use it as well.

Of course it's a case of ignorance. Person X was ignorant of the correct pronunciation at the outset, and that ignorance spread to Person Y.

Now yes, word pronunciations are viral. Incorrect pronunciations CAN become the accepted norm. That doesn't mean it didn't originate in ignorance.

I've heard the word "segue" pronounced "seeg." Someday that usage might become so common that it replaces the original pronunciation. That doesn't mean that anyone saying "seeg" right now isn't ignorant.



IF, in America, we were acquiring new and expressive words at the rate at which we're dropping them, then you would be correct that it's simply a case of language evolution. But we're not. Language here in the U.S. is stagnating, and even shrinking. That's not evolution, if anything, it's the opposite.

It's more a case of Person X hearing the word "foyer" pronounced a certain way and then monkeying it. Learning new words from written sources is common, but one can't use them in spoken conversation without being "corrected" by someone who uses the majority pronunciation. Most people read new words and then clarify their pronunciation via other people, like my mother and "epitome".



That's a common one. People mistake it to be pronounced similarly to "league". But still, if the majority arrives at "seeg", then "seeg" would become the common pronunciation. Until then "seeg" is widely unaccepted, but I say again, it isn't a case of ignorance. "Ignorance" implies that someone is unaware of the "true" pronunciation. What I'm trying to get across is that there is no "true" or "false" pronunciations. There are just common and uncommon ones. You may think "seeg" is awful and that everyone who says it is ignorant, but I'm sorry to say that if they outnumber you, they're right.

Here's an example. Let's say my surname is "Gloster". It's a British one, from southwest England, and it was originally spelled "Gloucester", but was phonetically identical. Somewhere along the line, my ancestors legally changed the spelling, or simply had it changed for them by accident of illiteracy - they would have entered censuses and parish records by saying their name out loud to a scribe, who would write down whatever he heard. So while my surname was originally Gloucester, I am now Bob Gloster, son of Mr. and Mrs. Gloster.

Which one's the right surname? Would I be wrong in spelling my name Gloster, because that spelling was rooted in an "ignorance" of its original spelling? Would I be ignorant for continuing to use what you would call the incorrect spelling of my own name?

What I would say is that neither answer is correct. You can spell your surname however you want: so long as you have consensus, presumably from family members and census records, the spelling is valid. Saying that there is a true, factual pronunciation of any word is similar to saying that there is true, factual value to a dollar bill. It is a fact that there is a commonly accepted pronunciation, and a commonly accepted value, but neither pronunciation nor value is itself a fact.



Now that is an objective assertion. Is it true? Are you actually losing words, a la Newspeak, or is the language merely losing words with which you are familiar and acquiring new ones that you don't recognise as valid?

Just because some words cease to have a use and become vestigial doesn't mean that the language is deteriorating. Obsolescence is a fundamental part of progress. Some words become redundant and drop out and new words are acquired, often adopted from slang. That's what evolution involves.

Are you ******** me? Really? Why would the government enforce something like mandatory spelling?

It's just a convention. It's like asking if it's right for girls to ask out guys, or if it's right to use a salad fork to eat a steak.

Shrug, politicians, personages, and activists have been trying to promote spelling reform of American English since the 18th century. Ben Franklin, Noah Webster, and Andrew Carnegie, for example.