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#1 May 28 2009 at 5:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Keep in mind the same people who are pro-life and pro-gay marriage are the ones perpetrating these acts.

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Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife.

Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'" The county employee notified the couple that the small bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of county regulations, according to Broyles.

Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.



http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html

Is anyone really shocked this happened in Cali?



Edited, May 28th 2009 9:51am by publiusvarus
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#2 May 28 2009 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Is anyone really shocked this happened in Cali?



Edited, May 28th 2009 9:51am by publiusvarus


Not at all comrade.
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#3 May 28 2009 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good
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While the county, I'd imagine, is within it's legal rights, it does set a disturbing precedent, as the guy notes later in that article:

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Broyles also said this case has broader implications.

"If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" said Broyles


I had a large group of Baptist friends in college that regularly used one of the school's small outdoor ampitheatres for a Bible study, without permission as far as I know. The school didn't care, as they were minding their own business and not pestering other students. I don't understand why a group this small should have the law applied to them.

Edited, May 28th 2009 9:00am by AshOnMyTomatoes
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#4 May 28 2009 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Keep in mind the same people who are pro-life and pro-gay marriage are the ones perpetrating these acts.
It was the county!??

What does this have to do with abortion and marriage rights??

Wtf kinda drugs are you on now?
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#5 May 28 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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Stupid county regulation. It's probably within the county's rights to pursue it, if they are indeed violating a county law. The battle then is to take the regulation to court and show how it is unconstitutional in the state of CA. My guess is that the group pissed someone off, that someone knew county law and contacted an official, the official saw that, hey, they are violating whatever dumb law it was and this person won't stop complaining unless we act... so they acted.

Also:
Varrus wrote:
Keep in mind the same people who are pro-life and pro-gay marriage are the ones perpetrating these acts.


The county official? Your grammar doesn't make sense, but it seems to me you think a pro-life and pro-gay group brought this up. The article only says "A San Diego county official" and makes no such mention of any group affiliations. Your source?
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#6 May 28 2009 at 6:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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A more sensible version of this story.

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BONITA, Calif. -- A local pastor says the county has cited him for hosting weekly Bible studies in his own home.

Pastor, David Jones says a visitor to a neighbor's house called the county after a bible study member hit the visitor’s car while leaving.

Jones said a county code enforcement officer gave him a citation saying he needed a permit to host the weekly bible study meetings.

Jones says about 15 people attend the meetings every week.

Jones and his attorneys say he shouldn't have to get a permit for what he does inside his house. "We think it is clearly permissible. We think this is a violation of our constitutional rights," Jones told 10News.

A county spokeswoman says the county is concerned with parking and its impact on the neighborhood.

The two sides met Wednesday but resolved nothing.

Jones said they're scheduled to meet again on June 9.


It seems like a pretty straight forward matter to me. They are holding a regular public assembly in a residential neighborhood in violation of what I assume are zoning laws. It really has nothing whatsoever to do with the religious nature of the meeting, it's all about where they are being held.

Edited, May 28th 2009 10:20am by Turin
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#7 May 28 2009 at 6:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Southern California is pretty conservative, actually. I don't know about San Diego in particular.

But I agree with you, virus. Put it down as a red-letter day. This sucks, and is probably unconstitutional.

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#8 May 28 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:
A more sensible version of this story.

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BONITA, Calif. -- A local pastor says the county has cited him for hosting weekly Bible studies in his own home.

Pastor, David Jones says a visitor to a neighbor's house called the county after a bible study member hit the visitor’s car while leaving.

Jones said a county code enforcement officer gave him a citation saying he needed a permit to host the weekly bible study meetings.

Jones says about 15 people attend the meetings every week.

Jones and his attorneys say he shouldn't have to get a permit for what he does inside his house. "We think it is clearly permissible. We think this is a violation of our constitutional rights," Jones told 10News.

A county spokeswoman says the county is concerned with parking and its impact on the neighborhood.

The two sides met Wednesday but resolved nothing.

Jones said they're scheduled to meet again on June 9.


It seems like a pretty straight forward matter to me. They are holding a regular public assembly in are residential neighborhood in violation of what I assume are zoning laws. It really has nothing whatsoever to do with the religious nature of the meeting, it's all about where they are being held.
See, I knew there had to be more to it. It's all well and good until it becomes a public disturbance.
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#9 May 28 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Unless you can prove that the county official who investigated and warned them about the law is a gay gynecologist on the side, then this has nothing to do with gay rights or abortion.

It does sound like it's a stupid county ordinance, but many county ordinances are stupid. Around here, you are not allowed to water your lawn after 10AM during the day, and you are not allowed to mow your lawn before 10AM. So lawn enthusiasts have to spend the whole weekend to get the grass cut and watered.
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#10 May 28 2009 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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I watched an interview with the pastor and his wife (it was on fox news). It's very unclear, from what they said, what the county violation actually is. If indeed they are singling out gatherings that are religious in nature - that is wrong.

However, many communities have codes, zoning laws etc, prohibiting regular gatherings - mostly due to parking constraints and nuisance ordinances. Tupperware parties will not typically feel the bite of this because they're usually a one-shot deal. Someone, presumably a neighbor, had to have complained about these gatherings. Who knows maybe the Pastors good pal kept parking in the crotchety old neighbors parking spot.

At any rate its not nationally news-worthy. Unless you're Smiley: tinfoilhat, or you have your own agenda...hmmmm??
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#11 May 28 2009 at 6:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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If parking and traffic were a problem, it still seems that the county official should have given them a chance to address those concerns first. Tell them their members need to carpool. Talk to them like grownups, ffs.

I hate it when people, especially people in positions of petty authority, jump to the heavy handed "solution" first thing.

Now if it comes up that they had already tried a more amicable solution and the prayer meeting folks are being asses out of a sense of entitlement, then my opinion may change.

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#12 May 28 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Default
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We had better watch out. Make this about me all you will but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The anti-God movement are generally the same people who support abortion and are for gay marriage. That most of you would rather ignore this shows just how brainwashed you are. These groups have a definite idea on what they want the world/country to be like. A world where God is replaced by govn. We had better get away from this pc movement and start realizing it for what it is. What happens when the county passes a law that anymore than 5 meeting in a residential area has to pay a 20k fee to worship? "Oh they'll never do that". Do you believe this?

I know I must be on something; maybe a little too much caffeine.
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#13 May 28 2009 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
We had better watch out. Make this about me all you will but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The anti-God movement are generally the same people who support abortion and are for gay marriage. That most of you would rather ignore this shows just how brainwashed you are. These groups have a definite idea on what they want the world/country to be like. A world where God is replaced by govn. We had better get away from this pc movement and start realizing it for what it is. What happens when the county passes a law that anymore than 5 meeting in a residential area has to pay a 20k fee to worship? "Oh they'll never do that". Do you believe this?

I know I must be on something; maybe a little too much caffeine.


Hmm, I think it might be time for that Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#14 May 28 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, you're on your pulpit. Negate all the rational comments above, and carry on.
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#15 May 28 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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That still ignores the fact that this happened in SoCal. I know a lot of people think Cali is completely homogeneous; I assure you, it is not.

The part that troubles me is that the questions the official purportedly asked were not, "Do you meet here every week? Are there always 10-12 cars being parked along the street, here, every week?", but more specific to the type of meeting being held.

I just wonder what his reaction would have been to a book club, or a poker group.
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#16 May 28 2009 at 6:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Probably unconstitutional. I don't see an "agenda" here though aside from overzealous code enforcement.
Samira wrote:
I don't know about San Diego in particular
A quick look tells me that the county supervisor is a Republican and at least half the county board (I stopped looking after I hit the 50%+ mark).
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#17 May 28 2009 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
That still ignores the fact that this happened in SoCal. I know a lot of people think Cali is completely homogeneous; I assure you, it is not.

The part that troubles me is that the questions the official purportedly asked were not, "Do you meet here every week? Are there always 10-12 cars being parked along the street, here, every week?", but more specific to the type of meeting being held.

I just wonder what his reaction would have been to a book club, or a poker group.
That line of questioning sounds like a one-sided version of things. We'll see what the true order of events was though, I'm sure.
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#18 May 28 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's a local ordinance. You want to know how many local ordinances are retarded? Damn near all of them. Instead of suing they should just register to vote and elect someone who will change it. If there are 15 of them already they probably only need another 35 votes to tilt the election in their favor anyway.

That way they are doing it the right way, correct? Pulling themselves up by their boot straps or making their own way in this world right? No need for activist judges, just fix the problem yourself.


P.S. I agree that this ordinance is ****.
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#19 May 28 2009 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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The double standards Virus flaunts are really quite entertaining. Constitutional violations in mosques are A-OK, but if you trample the toes of Christians, obviously there's some conspiracy at work.
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#20 May 28 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
We had better watch out. Make this about me all you will but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The anti-God movement are generally the same people who support abortion and are for gay marriage. That most of you would rather ignore this shows just how brainwashed you are. These groups have a definite idea on what they want the world/country to be like. A world where God is replaced by govn. We had better get away from this pc movement and start realizing it for what it is. What happens when the county passes a law that anymore than 5 meeting in a residential area has to pay a 20k fee to worship? "Oh they'll never do that". Do you believe this?

I know I must be on something; maybe a little too much caffeine.


Smiley: lol

Carry on Smiley: popcorn
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#21 May 28 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
We had better watch out. Make this about me all you will but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The anti-God movement are generally the same people who support abortion and are for gay marriage. That most of you would rather ignore this shows just how brainwashed you are. These groups have a definite idea on what they want the world/country to be like. A world where God is replaced by govn. We had better get away from this pc movement and start realizing it for what it is. What happens when the county passes a law that anymore than 5 meeting in a residential area has to pay a 20k fee to worship? "Oh they'll never do that". Do you believe this?

I know I must be on something; maybe a little too much caffeine.


Yeah. It's the county. Not the state. Not the country. It's a county ordinance. La-di-frickin'-da.

Seems like one of the meeting people hit someone else's car. That person got pissed, and got a county official involved. Said official found out there are regular meetings that clog the area with cars for the purpose of religious assembly, and took an over-the-top route to stopping it. IF it was done simply because it was a religious meeting, the person should be fired. But odds are it was because it went against what the ordinance said... something like "regular meetings cannot occur with more than 12 cars parked on the street."

Agree with what others said: it's a dumb ordinance, and the official was too heavy-handed. It is not, go figure, an organized attack on religion by the liberal powers that be.
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#22 May 28 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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baelnic wrote:
It's a local ordinance. You want to know how many local ordinances are retarded? Damn near all of them. Instead of suing they should just register to vote and elect someone who will change it. If there are 15 of them already they probably only need another 35 votes to tilt the election in their favor anyway.

That way they are doing it the right way, correct? Pulling themselves up by their boot straps or making their own way in this world right? No need for activist judges, just fix the problem yourself.


P.S. I agree that this ordinance is sh*t.
Well this is San Diego County. I'm guessing they'd need more than 50 votes to tilt anything.

I'll agree that if things played out the way we are being led to believe - it stinks.

I'm sure it's all part of the liberal agenda. Smiley: rolleyes
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#23 May 28 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
We had better watch out. Make this about me all you will but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The anti-God movement are generally the same people who support abortion and are for gay marriage. That most of you would rather ignore this shows just how brainwashed you are. These groups have a definite idea on what they want the world/country to be like. A world where God is replaced by govn. We had better get away from this pc movement and start realizing it for what it is. What happens when the county passes a law that anymore than 5 meeting in a residential area has to pay a 20k fee to worship? "Oh they'll never do that". Do you believe this?

I know I must be on something; maybe a little too much caffeine.

Hey, anything that removes religion from the state I'm all for.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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#24 May 28 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
We had better watch out. Make this about me all you will but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The anti-God movement are generally the same people who support abortion and are for gay marriage. That most of you would rather ignore this shows just how brainwashed you are. These groups have a definite idea on what they want the world/country to be like. A world where God is replaced by govn. We had better get away from this pc movement and start realizing it for what it is. What happens when the county passes a law that anymore than 5 meeting in a residential area has to pay a 20k fee to worship? "Oh they'll never do that". Do you believe this?

I know I must be on something; maybe a little too much caffeine.

Hey, anything that removes religion from the state I'm all for.
A home isn't the state.

You're going to hell son. Gay sex fridays for joo!
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#25 May 28 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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I agree that the zoning law is absurd, as is the enforcement of it. If the questions in varrus's quote were actually asked the guy should be fired, and it's probably an unconstitutional law, right to gather etc.

However don't tie it to unrelated issues whose only common thread is that you're against them. It doesn't help your case and it just makes you look sillysillier.
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#26 May 28 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:


It seems like a pretty straight forward matter to me. They are holding a regular public assembly in a residential neighborhood in violation of what I assume are zoning laws. It really has nothing whatsoever to do with the religious nature of the meeting, it's all about where they are being held.



Ammendment #1 in the bill of rights wrote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Sounds like a the county's order is direct violation of the constitution to me. Zoning laws are for tax purposes and have no applicability here. It's *********
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