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How old before you know you're a boy or a girl?Follow
Humanity won't exist in five million years. ****, we've only been identifiably human for about fifty thousand.
OMG NOT FIVE MILLION YEARS! We are screwed! (Or, not screwed... technically speaking?)
(BS article is BS).
(BS article is BS).
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
I heard you could Freeze sperm.
But that would ruin the idea I had when I read that article about Super-Evolved-Lesbians from the future traveling back in time to kidnap men & rape them.
IN OUTERSPACE!!!
(TM)
But that would ruin the idea I had when I read that article about Super-Evolved-Lesbians from the future traveling back in time to kidnap men & rape them.
IN OUTERSPACE!!!
(TM)
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Smasharoo wrote:
We don't know neurologically what happens, or if anything happens. Maybe it happens in the womb. Maybe it happens during puberty. WE JUST DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA YET.
There was data over 12 years ago, that began to show that gender identity was form in the womb. The theory then was that something interrupted the normal brain chemistry causing the gender to not match the physical sexual organs. I think that 2 people who are active in the community would have a better idea of what the medical and scientific community thinks is the cause then some data analyst who done work for pharmaceutical companies.
Provide credentials that show you are an expert in the field and we might just give you some credit for having knowledge in gender identity.
In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair! -ElneClare
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
TirithRR wrote:
OMG NOT FIVE MILLION YEARS! We are screwed! (Or, not screwed... technically speaking?)
(BS article is BS).
(BS article is BS).
didn't the feminist manifesto (I might have the name wrong) explain how women could survive & reproduce without the need for males?
Mistress ElneClare wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
We don't know neurologically what happens, or if anything happens. Maybe it happens in the womb. Maybe it happens during puberty. WE JUST DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA YET.
There was data over 12 years ago, that began to show that gender identity was form in the womb. The theory then was that something interrupted the normal brain chemistry causing the gender to not match the physical sexual organs. I think that 2 people who are active in the community would have a better idea of what the medical and scientific community thinks is the cause then some data analyst who done work for pharmaceutical companies.
Provide credentials that show you are an expert in the field and we might just give you some credit for having knowledge in gender identity.
There has been data that suggests gender identity might be formed in the womb, but as someone who has taken very recent coursework and spent not an inconsequential amount of time researching gender identity issues (though I admit, it's never been my primary focus), I'm unaware of any conclusive evidence identifying exactly when gender identity is formed, how it is formed, if it's the result of androgens or societal factors or a combination or something else. I'm not sure I understand why people seem to be getting so wound up and defensive about it. Not having conclusive evidence about gender identity development doesn't detract from the fact that it exists or that those experiencing gender identity disorder don't still have a valid need for support and services. It's just that in the study of human sexuality, the attention paid to gender identity issues is relatively new in awareness, scope, and research monies applied and I think it will be a long time coming, if ever, that we have a full understanding of all the contributing factors.
As an aside, I'm not even necessarily comfortable with the idea that any number of things are happening exclusively genetically or before birth or whatever since that gives *some* folks the idea that it may be "correctable" in the womb. If it turns out the be the case, than so be it, but I very nearly wish that it would never be discovered to be such.
Nexa
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
The word "androgen" always makes me think of hormonal robots.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
niobia wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
OMG NOT FIVE MILLION YEARS! We are screwed! (Or, not screwed... technically speaking?)
(BS article is BS).
(BS article is BS).
didn't the feminist manifesto (I might have the name wrong) explain how women could survive & reproduce without the need for males?
Vandread showed us how both Men and Women could survive without the other.
Edit:
Men cloned.
Women carried cloned babies from eggs to term.
Edited, May 21st 2009 10:11am by TirithRR
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
Quote:
I'm unaware of any conclusive evidence identifying exactly when gender identity is formed, how it is formed, if it's the result of androgens or societal factors or a combination or something else.
In developmental psychology and psychiatry and in ***** theory, there are multiple schools of thoughts that point to gender identity being developed early in life and seeing sexual identity as similarly rooted as an essential part of the person. There are other schools of thoughts that see gender of a social construction--the same schools of thought that generally find that sexual orientation is a social construction. Some people who believe that are radical ***** theorists. It's a valid theory--but I don't get how you can say that we have no idea about that there are any inherent biological drive to gender identity development but that sexual orientation-- which has a lot to do with who we want to f*ck and what gender they are-- is biologically driven. That's my beef. I also follow the overriding trends--basically that it falls somewhere in the middle and that is where the research I've seen, not only among my peers in the field but among people in the trans-communities who have some academic interest in their identities. I think we're all sophisticated enough to realize that when we think about the relationship between gender identity and sexual orientation, that we are not acting as if one is equivalent to the other.
I've explained my point of view. I'm not sure why you are assuming everyone is being defensive when I just disagree with his POV and want him to talk about why he thinks what he thinks.
Edited, May 21st 2009 10:43am by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Warchief Annabella wrote:
There are other schools of thought
That's basically my entire point. There are valid theories in multiple schools coming from a variety of directions. Some of them are complimentary and some aren't.
My real feeling about this and about so many other issues tied to gender/sexual orientation/etc is that how it starts, when it starts, how we develop is somewhat irrelevant. I know it's not a popular view, but I really don't care how one becomes gay or how one develops gender dysphoria. I have an uncomfortable feeling about the need to explain these things because it always comes down to some sort of "justification" for the existence of such issues/populations. I don't think that being genetically predisposed to being gay, for example, makes one's status as a gay person more "justified" for support/services/rights/etc. I feel the same way about gender identity.
Also, just out of curiosity,
Quote:
It's a valid theory--but I don't get how you can say that we have no idea about that there are any inherent biological drive to gender identity development but that sexual orientation-- which has a lot to do with who we want to f*ck and what gender they are-- is biologically driven.
Nexa
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
Quote:
, wasn't actually directed at me was it...it was a general sort of "you" right? I'm just checking because I wasn't arguing that at all.
Yes, it wasn't directed towards you. I think I was referring to stuff earlier in the thread.
Quote:
I really don't care how one becomes gay or how one develops gender dysphoria. I have an uncomfortable feeling about the need to explain these things because it always comes down to some sort of "justification" for the existence of such issues/populations
I understand. But it's hard not to feel like there needs to be a justification b/c people are very quick to do things like act as transgender identity is not a valid identity or doesn't really make much sense. I think that is where I was getting before--the parents in the article are responding to an overwhelming cultural mandate that their child is not transgendered b/c transgendered identity doesn't exist in the mind of many people while having a child who has significant distress b/c of his own reports of gender dysphoria. How do you parent a child given those dilemmas?
Edited, May 21st 2009 11:48am by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Nexa wrote:
My real feeling about this and about so many other issues tied to gender/sexual orientation/etc is that how it starts, when it starts, how we develop is somewhat irrelevant. I know it's not a popular view, but I really don't care how one becomes gay or how one develops gender dysphoria. I have an uncomfortable feeling about the need to explain these things because it always comes down to some sort of "justification" for the existence of such issues/populations. I don't think that being genetically predisposed to being gay, for example, makes one's status as a gay person more "justified" for support/services/rights/etc. I feel the same way about gender identity.
I couldn't agree with this more. I think it's interesting to find out the hows and whys, but I wouldn't limit that to homosexuality or gender dysphoria. To me, it doesn't just explain that, but it also explains heterosexuality and gender identity in general.
I think what bothers me the most about trying to find out why someone is homosexual (or whatever) is that it puts them in a catagory that makes them "abnormal" or "unnatural" in such a way that it takes on a negative twist and seems like they're wrong, somehow. I suppose it's sort of like what you were saying, that if we keep delving into it, we'll be able to "fix" these things while the child is still in the womb. That's so disturbing.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I think what bothers me the most about trying to find out why someone is homosexual (or whatever) is that it puts them in a catagory that makes them "abnormal" or "unnatural" in such a way that it takes on a negative twist and seems like they're wrong
You can spend all your life trying to be special and then complain when it happens? Some people make me mad
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