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How old before you know you're a boy or a girl?Follow

#27 May 19 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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what a wonderful phrase
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publiusvarus wrote:
Anna,

Quote:
I think if we have more parents aware of their children's trans-identities, we'll have alot fewer neurotic and depressed transadults,


Have you considered that they're neurotic as adults because of their confusion as children? This is nothing more than the homosexual agenda's ongoing war to normalize deviant behaviour. The ACLU is suing Knox county schools because homosexual websites are being blocked. This is a movement in every city and town to normalize immoral/deviant behaviour. The homosexual community is in outright attack mode on traditional american family values.



I'd not only disagree but also point out that you are conflating gender identity with sexual orientation.
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#28 May 19 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:


When gay people start putting the rest of us in fabulously decorated concentration camps, let me know.



Lol of the day Smiley: laugh
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#29 May 19 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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New varus?

...and it's scholar?

This forum isn't doing it's part to normalize immoral/deviant fuck slaps fast enough.
#30 May 19 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
About six weeks, isn't it?
#31 May 19 2009 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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When I was a young boy, I got my mother to buy me barbie dolls so I could play with the neighbors.

I'm still a guy today, like I was back then (no gender confusion here). It's just that the only children my age were girls, and when I played with them, or went over to their house, they all had barbies to play with, and I didn't have anything. I just needed to fit in with my peers.

My first real friend was a tomboy, she would play with snakes and spiders outside with me, and didn't mind playing in the dirt. She grew up to be a very cute, mentally stable, girl.

I don't see the problem with not adhering to gender roles as kids.

I think the problem with many people who go through this whole transgender thing is they are forced by their parents, or society, to feel that if they don't like sports, then they cannot be male, if they don't like dressing up and playing with dolls then they can't be female. If they were just allowed to be who they are, and not treated like a strange little boy or girl, then they'd realize they can do these things and still be their biological gender.

The mental problems come when they are forced to feel like what they are doing is wrong. Then they somehow think that having breasts will fix their problems, or having a ***** will make them feel better about themselves. When really all they need is to realize that "Hey, I'm a person, I can like what ever I want to like."
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#32 May 19 2009 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
TirithRR wrote:
When I was a young boy, I got my mother to buy me barbie dolls so I could play with the neighbors.

I'm still a guy today, like I was back then (no gender confusion here). It's just that the only children my age were girls, and when I played with them, or went over to their house, they all had barbies to play with, and I didn't have anything. I just needed to fit in with my peers.

My first real friend was a tomboy, she would play with snakes and spiders outside with me, and didn't mind playing in the dirt. She grew up to be a very cute, mentally stable, girl.

I don't see the problem with not adhering to gender roles as kids.

I think the problem with many people who go through this whole transgender thing is they are forced by their parents, or society, to feel that if they don't like sports, then they cannot be male, if they don't like dressing up and playing with dolls then they can't be female. If they were just allowed to be who they are, and not treated like a strange little boy or girl, then they'd realize they can do these things and still be their biological gender.

The mental problems come when they are forced to feel like what they are doing is wrong. Then they somehow think that having breasts will fix their problems, or having a ***** will make them feel better about themselves. When really all they need is to realize that "Hey, I'm a person, I can like what ever I want to like."


I think that's a very simple way to look at it, and not at all what's going on behind the scenes.

Let's look at this case, for instance. I think it's more than obvious that these parents have no problem with their little boy playing with things that little girls usually play with. I don't think they are telling their kid that if you don't like sports, you're not a boy. They seem pretty fucking open-minded here.

There is a big difference between playing with Barbies and feeling like you're a little girl on the inside. When you asked your mother to buy you Barbies, were you praying every night that god would fix you? That your insides would match your outsides? That you wanted to be called a girl, because "boy" doesn't sound right?

I think it's sad that you see this child who has a documented medical condition, and you're saying, "Meh, it's the parents fault. All their fault. They are obviously making the kid feel this way."

Personally, I applaud these parents for embracing their child and her needs instead of stifling them and causing her to have mental issues later in life.
#33 May 19 2009 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
The mental problems come when they are forced to feel like what they are doing is wrong. Then they somehow think that having breasts will fix their problems, or having a ***** will make them feel better about themselves. When really all they need is to realize that "Hey, I'm a person, I can like what ever I want to like."


I'm not so sure its as simple as that. I baulked when I heard about Body Integrity Identity Disorder.

If the brain can engender such strong feelings as to make people desire to have entire limbs like the lower leg removed, is it such a jump to presume that people may wish/need to have a certain gender body?

#34 May 19 2009 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
TirithRR wrote:
When I was a young boy, I got my mother to buy me barbie dolls so I could play with the neighbors.

I'm still a guy today, like I was back then (no gender confusion here). It's just that the only children my age were girls, and when I played with them, or went over to their house, they all had barbies to play with, and I didn't have anything. I just needed to fit in with my peers.

My first real friend was a tomboy, she would play with snakes and spiders outside with me, and didn't mind playing in the dirt. She grew up to be a very cute, mentally stable, girl.

I don't see the problem with not adhering to gender roles as kids.

I think the problem with many people who go through this whole transgender thing is they are forced by their parents, or society, to feel that if they don't like sports, then they cannot be male, if they don't like dressing up and playing with dolls then they can't be female. If they were just allowed to be who they are, and not treated like a strange little boy or girl, then they'd realize they can do these things and still be their biological gender.

The mental problems come when they are forced to feel like what they are doing is wrong. Then they somehow think that having breasts will fix their problems, or having a ***** will make them feel better about themselves. When really all they need is to realize that "Hey, I'm a person, I can like what ever I want to like."
It isn't about what these kids do, it's about who they are. Trans men are not masculine women and trans women are not feminine men. You're tying these people's identities up in their likes and behaviors, and I realize you're following the simplistic lead of the media, but you're really just fantastically wrong.

If you spend some time in the trans community, you meet transwomen who identify as butch lesbians, transmen with beards who like motorcycles, transwomen who are tomboys, transmen who are incredibly femme gay guys, transwomen who love makeup and dresses, and transmen who just like to hang out, have a couple of beers, and catch a game.
#35 May 19 2009 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
When you asked your mother to buy you Barbies, were you praying every night that god would fix you? That your insides would match your outsides? That you wanted to be called a girl, because "boy" doesn't sound right?


No, but I didn't go to a private Catholic school where I was told I had to be a boy either.

Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I think it's sad that you see this child who has a documented medical condition, and you're saying, "Meh, it's the parents fault. All their fault. They are obviously making the kid feel this way."


Parents, or society. I wasn't blaming these parents.
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#36 May 19 2009 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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No it doesn't. Gender identity formation actually starts at a very, very young age and definitely before elementary school.


This is a complete and total guess about a subjective social construct. I'm not even sure what it's supposed to mean; that very, very young children who barely understand the gender roles they observe identify with one or the other? Ridiculous. It's an interesting tapdance, this postmodern feminist argument that little girls like who like to wear dresses, play with dolls, have tea parties and hate math do so because of societal pressure, but that little boys who do such things are driven by the formation of their gender identity, presumably genetically determined.

Sexual orientation, sure; there's evidence there. Gender identity in children? There isn't.


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#37 May 19 2009 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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It isn't about what these kids do, it's about who they are.


No, it's about what you're projecting on children based upon your interactions with the adult trans community. Don't get me wrong, most of the posts here reek of being threatened, but making wild assumptions in the other direction isn't really helpful.

The correct answer should be "who cares?". They're convinced their boy was a girl born in a boy's body and the kid's happy with that? Great. Who cares? If the kid changes his mind when he's 15, great, who cares? If he's upset with his parents, great, he'll be an average 15 year old.
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#38 May 19 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
The correct answer should be "who cares?". They're convinced their boy was a girl born in a boy's body and the kid's happy with that? Great. Who cares? If the kid changes his mind when he's 15, great, who cares? If he's upset with his parents, great, he'll be an average 15 year old.


Thats one of the most sensible posts I've seen here in a while. It should be the happiness of a child that comes first, forget the rest.
Too many parents project onto children. Demanding academic performance or to live a parents dream and not their own, let alone being the perfect princess.

Saying all that - Smasharoo I do have a feeling that you would care (in a positive and encouraging way) if your own children turned out to be poker playing geniuses who loved the Boston Red Sox Smiley: wink
#39 May 19 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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I can't understand how identifying as one gender or the other could even mean anything but applying subjective and invented conceptions about gender, abstracted purely from expected behavior, to someone's personal station. I don't mean just for kids. I have no idea in hell what the words are supposed to signify when a (biologically) female individual says that they're really a man inside. I don't exactly understand what the words are supposed to mean when a biologically female individual tells me that they are a woman either.

It obviously doesn't mean "I have a ******." It also doesn't seem to mean "I enjoy typical girly ****." What else is there for the words to bite onto?

Frustrating.
#40 May 19 2009 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Too many parents project onto children. Demanding academic performance or to live a parents dream and not their own, let alone being the perfect princess.


What is the point of having children, if not to mold them into something? Sure you can accept them for whatever they become and all that, but I'm pretty sure people have children to impart some of themselves into them.
#41 May 19 2009 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo I do have a feeling that you would care (in a positive and encouraging way) if your own children turned out to be poker playing geniuses who loved the Boston Red Sox


Wait, my kids? I'm going to tie their right arms behind their backs and let them see nothing but video of Ted Williams hitting for the first 9 years of their lives.

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#42 May 19 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

Smasharoo I do have a feeling that you would care (in a positive and encouraging way) if your own children turned out to be poker playing geniuses who loved the Boston Red Sox


Wait, my kids? I'm going to tie their right arms behind their backs and let them see nothing but video of Ted Williams hitting for the first 9 years of their lives.



Would their teenage rebellion to become a Rugby player for a UK team, hate baseball, American Football Handball and start spelling favourite correctly? Smiley: grin

I just had to google who Ted Williams is ..
#43 May 19 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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It obviously doesn't mean "I have a ******."


"Why don't I have a ******?" I'd assume. Yes, there's a social construct involved, but people born without arms probably would like to have arms. I'd suspect that's the feeling in question, ok, I cheated, I'm familiar with lots of research, but thinking of it that way makes it less volatile for most people. Some people born with no legs wish they had legs. Some people born with the wrong set of genitalia wish they had the right set. No big deal.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#44 May 19 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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But then doesn't that reinforce both the binary aspect of gender as well as the sexual aspect of gender that so many people revile and try to repudiate?

After hearing so ******* much that it's a gender issue and not a sexual one I would have hoped that research would have given a more complex answer.

Quote:
What is the point of having children, if not to mold them into something? Sure you can accept them for whatever they become and all that, but I'm pretty sure people have children to impart some of themselves into them.


Narcissistic people maybe.
#45 May 19 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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Would their teenage rebellion to become a Rugby player for a UK team, hate baseball, American Football Handball


I'm the wrong American for this, I watch ******* Reserves matches fairly regularly. I was close to as excited by the ******* double in '02 as I was by the Red Sox winning the World Series in '03. Ok, maybe close is an unfair term, I was definitely happier than any of the Patriot's Super Bowl victories, though.





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#46 May 19 2009 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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But then doesn't that reinforce both the binary aspect of gender as well as the sexual aspect of gender that so many people revile and try to repudiate?


Not particularly. I don't recall from memory the distribution of sexual orientation for trans identified people, but there's not really a distinct correlation. The idea that men want to become women so that other men can pound their luscious beef curtains is a bit of a red herring. Gender isn't sexual orientation, sexual orientation isn't gender. They're distinct, not a big deal.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#47 May 19 2009 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Narcissistic people maybe.


Smiley: laugh Well perhaps.
#48 May 19 2009 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Oops

Instead of sexual I should have written biological. I didn't mean anything about sexual orientation.

What I meant was that being a female was associated with having a ******, and being a male with a *****. I've heard a lot of people say it's not that simple, but if you are correct and being a female trapped in a male's body abbreviates to "why don't I have a ******?" then it seems pretty simple indeed.

But I don't see how such an abbreviation leaves room for the conception of gender as a spectrum, or the existence of more than two genders.
#49 May 19 2009 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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What I meant was that being a female was associated with having a ******, and being a male with a *****. I've heard a lot of people say it's not that simple, but if you are correct and being a female trapped in a male's body abbreviates to "why don't I have a ******?" then it seems pretty simple indeed.

But I don't see how such an abbreviation leaves room for the conception of gender as a spectrum, or the existence of more than two genders.


It is more complicated, and entangled with layers upon layers of externalities like most of the human experience. Is it particularly more complicated than other aspects of being human, though? Probably not. It's novel because of it's rarity and it's relative deviance from the norm, and it's titillating for obvious reasons. Beyond that, I don't it particularly interesting.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#50 May 19 2009 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Is it particularly more complicated than other aspects of being human, though?


Not really. It just frustrates the **** out of me when I don't understand things.
#51 May 19 2009 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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It just frustrates the **** out of me when I don't understand things.


Meh, pick your battles and all that. You do have the option of spending your life trying to figure this one out, or you could focus on making money and getting laid. I'll remind you that life is almost certainly finite.....

On the other hand, you could become a specialized high class prostitute catering exclusively to the trans population and do it all!

Live the dream.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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