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The Bible versus the KoranFollow

#1 May 16 2009 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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The Bible versus the Koran

This is a very good article which my Tory self consumed with passion and reverence. The key point for me is the fact that regardless of Islams apparent growth in the 20th Century, it is utterly inward looking and stunted in its maturity.

Quote:
Other Islamic countries are almost as bad. Pakistan has witnessed the kidnapping of Christian missionaries. Sudan punishes “religious deviation” with imprisonment.

Christian evangelists complain that this creates an uneven playing field. But, in the long run, uneven playing fields weaken the home players. The West’s open marketplace in religion promotes innovation, even in something so basic as Bible publishing, while the Muslim world’s closed marketplace promotes dull conservatism. The Book and the Koran, by Muhammad Shahrur, which tried to reinterpret the Koran for modern readers, was widely banned in the Islamic world, despite its pious tone and huge popularity.


So will the fact that the Bible has been translated into many languages, is therefore accessible and easily understandable by all nations mean that it will win the race for minds and political power in the 21st century? It could be .... afterall Yankish has won the race for the global language (to date).

Quote:
Look at the relative performance of Christianity and Islam in the light of several centuries of history and the latter’s recent growth looks less impressive. Christianity has expanded massively since the 16th century, thanks to the dynamism of first Europe, then the United States.Despite the blessings of oil, the Arab world lags behind the West in most indices of economic success and political maturity, from investment in science to free and fair elections. There is depressingly little evidence of internal cultural creativity. More books are translated into Spanish every year than have been translated into Arabic in the past millennium.


warning - spurious assumption incoming

The explosion of Christianity from the 16th century appears to coincide quite nicely with the Bibles translation into other languages. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" is a phrase often used and I wonder if the Islamists out there are missing a trick from Christianity. I hope they keep missing it and keep inward looking and incestuous, I could do without an Islamic world for my lifetime.

There endeth my opinionated agnostic religious rant for the week Smiley: nod Now to pop out and do some sinning Smiley: queen

Edited, May 16th 2009 10:19am by GwynapNud
#2 May 16 2009 at 3:37 AM Rating: Decent
Islam's inward-looking ways is also the main reason why islamic terrorists do what they do. They firmly believe the Koran tells them to do what they're doing and they will be eternally rewarded for doing it, even though the koran not only does not say that, but it condemns it.
#3 May 16 2009 at 3:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Do you understand why it's theologically idiotic and damn near impossible to expect the koran to be translated into other languages?
#4 May 16 2009 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Do you understand why it's theologically idiotic and damn near impossible to expect the koran to be translated into other languages?


I think they said the same thing about the Bible and Latin(?). But then the King James version came out in English.

Edited, May 16th 2009 8:09am by TirithRR
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#5 May 16 2009 at 4:10 AM Rating: Good
The CoS will outpace them all. We're printing leaflets so fast that no one's ever seen us print leaflets.

Edited, May 16th 2009 12:11pm by Kavekk
#6 May 16 2009 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Bible versus the Koran: IN A STEEL CAGE! Only on Pay-Per-View.
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#7 May 16 2009 at 4:14 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Do you understand why it's theologically idiotic and damn near impossible to expect the koran to be translated into other languages?


OMG, GOD ONLY SPEAKS IN ARABIC! THE ALL KNOWING ONLY UNDERSTANDS ONE LANGUAGE AND CAN NEVER BE TRANSLATED!

I will forgive your prattling if you confused translation with interpretation.

Edited, May 16th 2009 12:16pm by GwynapNud
#8 May 16 2009 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I think they said the same thing about the Bible and Latin(?). But then the King James version came out in English.


The bible isn't the koran. It's not sound to equivocate them.

I invite any muslim reading to disagree by the way. I'd welcome the data.

Quote:
I will forgive your prattling if you confused translation with interpretation.


The **** are you talking about?

Edited, May 16th 2009 8:22am by Pensive
#9 May 16 2009 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
I think they said the same thing about the Bible and Latin(?). But then the King James version came out in English.


The bible isn't the koran. It's not sound to equivocate them.

I invite any muslim reading to disagree by the way. I'd welcome the data.


I'll quote the article

Quote:
Christians are also much more enthusiastic than Muslims about translating their holy book. Muslims believe that the Koran is the literal word of God — although most Muslims tolerate translations, it is a begrudging sort of tolerance.


ALLAH IS ARABIC AND ONLY SPEAKS ARABIC! LITERALLY!

Edited, May 16th 2009 12:24pm by GwynapNud
#10 May 16 2009 at 4:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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What a bloody shoddy post and article.

Quote:
Muslims believe that the Koran is the literal word of God. . .

Of course they do. They're simple and fick, unlike christians Smiley: dubious

Quote:

America’s War on Terror, which is certainly making it much more difficult to spread the Koran.

ORLY?

Quote:
The second advantage is Christians’ superior talent for turning their holy book into a commercial enterprise
Nice, impartial statement there.

Having studied both the Bible and the Koran in several languages and transaltions they are:
a) both more sophisticated than this dumbed down, biased article purports
b) highly allegorical, meaning they can be bent to whatever view you hold (peaceful or wrathful)
c) fUcking lethal in the hands of literalists who see parables as history and see no shades of grey
d) bloody good reads

As for the spread of both faiths, it makes me Smiley: rolleyes when each camp claims to be a more growing faith.

They're cyclic - right now, outside of USA, Islam is spreading like wildfire, while the 'christian' west is becoming ever more secular.

This article is published in Murdoch's print/web version of Fox news.

Do learn GwynSmiley: disappointed
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#11 May 16 2009 at 4:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Do you understand why it's theologically idiotic and damn near impossible to expect the koran to be translated into other languages?
So you have access to the Bible in the original coptic, aramaic and sumerian languages?
eBay! Quick!

FUcking moron.
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#12 May 16 2009 at 4:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nobby wrote:
What a bloody shoddy post and article.


Why thank you.

Nobby wrote:
Do learn GwynSmiley: disappointed


This was my attempt at trolling with a whimsical post and you just ruined it. I think I need to go cry now, you internet bully Smiley: cry

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#13 May 16 2009 at 4:30 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
The bible isn't the koran. It's not sound to equivocate them.


But it is sound to equivocate equate the mentalities of the people believing in them. Be it the early church officials who opposed the English translation of the Bible or the current Muslims who fear corruption of their holy Word through translation.

Edited, May 16th 2009 8:35am by TirithRR
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#14 May 16 2009 at 4:30 AM Rating: Decent
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No nobby, that's why I normally defer to you*.

Crotchety old *******.

***

I'm still sort of in awe at how you expect that I should know five ancient languages when I'm less than half your age.

***

*And mindel

Edited, May 16th 2009 8:33am by Pensive
#15 May 16 2009 at 4:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
No nobby, that's why I normally defer to you.

Crotchety old *******.
Oh and you and TirithRR might want to look up 'equivocate'.

I doesn't mean 'equate' (which you did).

Crochety and smug. Get it right n00b.

Oh and Gwyn, if you're a troll, I'm a dwarf ballerina.
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#16 May 16 2009 at 4:35 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I doesn't mean 'equate' (which you did).


Did not.

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I just wish sometimes that when you act derisive that you'd also attempt to educate. It's kind of ridiculous when I'm out here admitting where I'm ignorant and someone comes along and goes "haha you're ignorant."

No ****. I can't fix it in four seconds you know. I can add only what I tentatively have learned to a discussion and then modify it with time.

Edited, May 16th 2009 8:37am by Pensive
#17 May 16 2009 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
No nobby, that's why I normally defer to you.

Crotchety old *******.
Oh and you and TirithRR might want to look up 'equivocate'.

I doesn't mean 'equate' (which you did).

Crochety and smug. Get it right n00b.

Oh and Gwyn, if you're a troll, I'm a dwarf ballerina.


I did say attempt, you BULLY!!! Smiley: motz

I'll need therapy after this.
#18 May 16 2009 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
I doesn't mean 'equate' (which you did).


Did not.


So you meant that we shouldn't dodge them?
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#19 May 16 2009 at 4:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
I'm still sort of in awe at how you expect that I should know five ancient languages when I'm less than half your age.
I'd studied both texts in several languages before I graduated at 21. I gave up learning languages (dead and modern) at 23.

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#20 May 16 2009 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'd studied both texts in several languages before I graduated at 21. I gave up learning languages (dead and modern) at 23.


Well then I guess you're just better than me and have had more opportunities. If it irks you that much then recommend a good self latin teacher.

Quote:
So you meant that we shouldn't dodge them?


As I understand it equivocate means to dilly about in the middle of two positions while ignoring the differences between them.

Maybe I do need to look it up then.

Edited, May 16th 2009 8:40am by Pensive
#21 May 16 2009 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
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GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
I'll need therapy after this.
Zo chust lie on ze couch, cloes jour eyess, and tell me about jour chilthoot.
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#22 May 16 2009 at 4:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Nope, it meant what I thought it meant, though I didn't exactly use it properly.
#23 May 16 2009 at 4:43 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
So you meant that we shouldn't dodge them?


As I understand it equivocate means to dilly about in the middle of two positions while ignoring the differences between them.

Maybe I do need to look it up then.


Well, that would be equivocating, but it really just means to avoid answering a question (much like politicians do when they answer questions).

(No, I'm not trying to sound better than you, I did not know the meaning and assumed you were talking about how the Bible and Koran are different, and cannot be compared).
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#24 May 16 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
They're cyclic - right now, outside of USA, Islam is spreading like wildfire, while the 'christian' west is becoming ever more secular.


I predict a large initial increase in both faiths when the zombies start a-gnawing on brains, followed by a steep decline in daily horrors of the aftermath.
#25 May 16 2009 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
They're cyclic - right now, outside of USA, Islam is spreading like wildfire, while the 'christian' west is becoming ever more secular.


I predict a large initial increase in both faiths when the zombies start a-gnawing on brains, followed by a steep decline in daily horrors of the aftermath.
Ahh, but are human brains Halal?

You haven't thought this through have you, ace.
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#26 May 16 2009 at 4:49 AM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
Ahh, but are human brains Halal?

You haven't thought this through have you, ace.


Does the way they are prepared make a difference, like with Kosher?
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