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DNA Databases.Follow

#1 May 06 2009 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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I saw this BBC link today. Profiles of innocent people to be removed from Database.

I thought DNA matching could be helpful to those even innocent, like identifying missing persons or dead persons.
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#2 May 06 2009 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Sure. It could be useful to have all of your actions videotaped 24/7 without your consent.

You can see where this goes.
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#3 May 06 2009 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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G A T T A C A
#4 May 06 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Sure. It could be useful to have all of your actions videotaped 24/7 without your consent.

You can see where this goes.


Slippery slope, yadda yadda.

With DNA evidence, I don't think it should be treated any different than finger prints and dental records. (I know those are on file for me, and many people).
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#5 May 06 2009 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
Actually, I think everyone should have fingerprints taken around the age of 21.
#6 May 06 2009 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Ikkian wrote:
Actually, I think everyone should have fingerprints taken around the age of 21.


But without their fingerprints, how will they grip stuff?
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#7 May 06 2009 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Ikkian wrote:
Actually, I think everyone should have fingerprints taken around the age of 21.


In the US, most people get fingerprints taken between the ages of 5 and 10. The local police stations usually host "drives" during school under the guise of showing children how a police(wo)man does his/her job.
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#8 May 06 2009 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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With DNA evidence, I don't think it should be treated any different than finger prints and dental records. (I know those are on file for me, and many people).


While my fingerprints, DNA, retinal scans, and 90 billion other biometrics are all in a database somewhere, none of them were taken *without my consent*, which is the salient point. If one is accused of something, and offers DNA to prove innocence, they have every right to ask that the information not be stored in a database. DNA identification, contrary to public perception is quite prone to human error. Someone having their life ruined because of a false positive isn't a near impossible scenario. Am I worried about it? No. Should someone be forced to have their information in a database who is? No.

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#9 May 06 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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In the US, most people get fingerprints taken between the ages of 5 and 10.


Hahaha, lord no. Your anecdotal experiences aren't data. Most people in the US will never be fingerprinted.

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#10 May 06 2009 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

In the US, most people get fingerprints taken between the ages of 5 and 10.


Hahaha, lord no. Your anecdotal experiences aren't data. Most people in the US will never be fingerprinted.



I know it was "anecdotal", but I figured it was true for all public elementary schools, since it had been true for half a dozen schools in three different states (North, South, and West) I had personally been enrolled in, as well as the surrounding districts. I figured since it wasn't a single school in a secluded part of the US I had been in that did it, that there was a good chance that the majority of schools had such programs.
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#11 May 06 2009 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
I know it was "anecdotal", but I figured it was true for all public elementary schools, since it had been true for half a dozen schools in three different states (North, South, and West) I had personally been enrolled in, as well as the surrounding districts. I figured since it wasn't a single school in a secluded part of the US I had been in that did it, that there was a good chance that the majority of schools had such programs.

I've never heard of that sort of thing around St. Louis, and I'd be seriously pissed if I did.
#12 May 06 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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Majivo wrote:
and I'd be seriously pissed if I did.


And you'd be laughed at by the school district and police force.
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#13 May 06 2009 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Duke Ikkian wrote:
Actually, I think everyone should have fingerprints taken around the age of 21.


In the US, most people get fingerprints taken between the ages of 5 and 10. The local police stations usually host "drives" during school under the guise of showing children how a police(wo)man does his/her job.


I don't know about school.. be they sure as hell got me through boyscouts.
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#14 May 07 2009 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
The UK government only did this because of a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, in the S v Marper case, which said their policy of taking the DNA of anyone arrested for an offence was indiscriminate and not proportional. Before this ruling, the UK Government could take, and keep, your DNA profile if you were arrested for a motoring offence, and later acquitted. Or if you were taken into custody for being drunk on the street. Or if you gave a witness statement to the police. Basically, if you came into contact with the police, you'd get your DNA stored permanently.

What it led to was ridiculous situations: Kids under the age of 10 being on the Database. One third of the black males in the UK being on the Database, Half of black males in London being on the database. The corresponding figures was whites, by the way, was around 15%. Not only that, but DNA is only successful in 0.37% of all cases that come before the police.

Finally, adding DNA profiles of individuals onto a database doesn't lead to more detections if the rate of Scene of Crimes profiles added to the database isn't proportional to the individual profiles. The rate of detection of crimes using DNA didn't go up between 2005-2007 eventhough the number of individual profiles on the database went up by around 400,000.

Finally, the Home Office approved the use of the DNA Database for research purposes, without publicising any information: neither the company doing the research, nor the topic of the research. That's a bit fucked-up.

DNA can be useful, but only in specific circumstances, and only for certain kinds of crime. An ever-growing database like the UK had, was not only super expensive, it was also pretty useless. It's aim was not really to fight crime, it was to fight the fear of crime. Just like pretty much every single policy from this government has been about fighting the fear of crime. Not crime itself. But people's perceptions of crime.

Thank fuck for the ECHR.

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#15 May 07 2009 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

With DNA evidence, I don't think it should be treated any different than finger prints and dental records. (I know those are on file for me, and many people).


While my fingerprints, DNA, retinal scans, and 90 billion other biometrics are all in a database somewhere, none of them were taken *without my consent*, which is the salient point. If one is accused of something, and offers DNA to prove innocence, they have every right to ask that the information not be stored in a database. DNA identification, contrary to public perception is quite prone to human error. Someone having their life ruined because of a false positive isn't a near impossible scenario. Am I worried about it? No. Should someone be forced to have their information in a database who is? No.



This.

There is also the issue of the exception. Take the example of the Chimera. A Chimera has 2 sets of DNA. There have been numerous cases where courts have nearly convicted someone or taken their children because they assume that DNA testing is infallible. One example is cited in my lazy google.

Quote:
Chimerism can be detected in DNA testing. The Lydia Fairchild case, for example, was brought to court after DNA testing showed that her children could not be hers, since DNA did not match. The charge against her was dismissed when it became clear that Lydia was a chimera, with the matching DNA being found in her cervical tissue. Another case was that of Karen Keegan.[1]


I am against DNA records being kept. There will always be errors in the recording of such samples and the results comparisons will return. I do not see the benefit for the majority of the population and its all far too much like big brother to me.

You know, just thinking about it. It would be excellent to be a Chimera criminal. Standard DNA tests would not be a worry for you

Edited, May 7th 2009 8:37am by GwynapNud
#16 May 07 2009 at 12:43 AM Rating: Decent
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You know, just thinking about it. It would be excellent to be a Chimera criminal. Standard DNA tests would not be a worry for you


Too bad it's illegal to transmute chimeras. Smiley: frown
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#17 May 07 2009 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Lady GwynapNud wrote:
You know, just thinking about it. It would be excellent to be a Chimera criminal. Standard DNA tests would not be a worry for you


Law and Order, either Criminal Intent or SVU did it already. Standard DNA tests worked, it just depended on where they got the DNA from. The guys mouth yeilded DNA that didn't match. But a blood sample matched.

House, MD. also did it, but not about a criminal, just a medical mystery.


Also, it's extremely rare.
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#18 May 07 2009 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I got DNA'd once at uni. Some girl got attacked on campus, so the police took swabs off everyone. Don't know if it is still on record, never thought to ask.
#19 May 07 2009 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
Archfiend Goggy wrote:
I got DNA'd once at uni. Some girl got attacked on campus, so the police took swabs off everyone. Don't know if it is still on record, never thought to ask.


It was until now.

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#20 May 07 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Decent
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Archfiend Goggy wrote:
I got DNA'd once at uni. Some girl got attacked on campus, so the police took swabs off everyone. Don't know if it is still on record, never thought to ask.


It was until now.



Well, that's a relief.
#21 May 07 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Eugenics anyone ?
#22 May 07 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Terrifyingspeed wrote:
Eugenics anyone ?


The OoT/Asylum would be quiet.
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