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I'm not sure how I feel about this...Follow

#1 May 06 2009 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Here's the deal.

Maine wants to start taxing entities that extract water from the ground. It would be a per gallon tax, but the first million gallons of water extracted per year, are exempt. So, it's only gonna affect those sucking A LOT of water out of the ground...or, Poland Springs Bottling Company. They're the only ones, currently, that this would affect.

I'm not necessarily against taxing groundwater use, but it seems this is simply a policy to generate tax money because the state is broke - and Poland Springs isn't, rather than a carefully thought out policy to oversee the use of a valuable natural resource.

Poland Springs is one of Maines bigger, and better employers. They're reportedly a good company to work for and have seemed to be decent stewards of the natural environment that they depend on (except that they are responsible for the generation of billions of plastic bottles of water that get trucked all over the continent).

There are some that are equating this to Alaska state government generating income by taxing oil as it's extracted from the states subsurface.

I'm just not sure about taxing water.
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#2 May 06 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's ****************** but not for the reasons others probably do.

I think that it's funny that this prominent business that is, by this limited OP's description, a positive influence on this region is being targeted so blatantly by a local tax levy.

The plant produces jobs, which in turn generates a multitude of tax revenue in and of itself as it is. Income tax, cost of living revenue spending, sales taxes, etc. etc. and the state/local government wants to make a tax tailor made to "stick it to" this company. The government needs money, this company has money, hell, lets not find a way to save some money...lets take theirs.

Our little town here would be destroyed if you left but we're going to see how much we can gouge you before you say enough is enough.

Classic.
#3 May 06 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
There are some that are equating this to Alaska state government generating income by taxing oil as it's extracted from the states subsurface.
Alaska does tax its oil industry. That's why they can afford to send everyone checks.

The primary difference here being whose coffers the tax revenue goes to.
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#4 May 06 2009 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Bauran wrote:
I think it's hi-@#%^ing-larious but not for the reasons others probably do.

I think that it's funny that this prominent business that is, by this limited OP's description, a positive influence on this region is being targeted so blatantly by a local tax levy.

The plant produces jobs, which in turn generates a multitude of tax revenue in and of itself as it is. Income tax, cost of living revenue spending, sales taxes, etc. etc. and the state/local government wants to make a tax tailor made to "stick it to" this company. The government needs money, this company has money, hell, lets not find a way to save some money...lets take theirs.

Our little town here would be destroyed if you left but we're going to see how much we can gouge you before you say enough is enough.

Classic.
Well it is prominent. There have been, in the not to recent past, instances where this company has been the recipient of local tax incentives. Also causing controversy but for quite the opposite reason.

There are also lots of people using the slippery-slope argument here. If ground water is taxed, what about industries that utilize millions of gallons of surface water for cooling purposes, even mention of the ski resorts possibly getting taxed for using the snow if this proposal passes. lawl.
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#5 May 06 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Some of the problem in general is generated by overuse of purchased water vs. water from the tap. I don't know. I've had a problem with the way that buying water has continued to undermine public utilities. It's a major social justice issue. We should not be buying water when we have clean, safe water available. There has been an erosion of public confidence which might lead to further privatization of the water system. I think Poland Springs should be more culpable.

Edited, May 6th 2009 11:11am by Annabella
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#6 May 06 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Annabella wrote:
Some of the problem in general is generated by overuse of purchased water vs. water from the tap. I don't know. I've had a problem with the way that buying water has continued to undermine public utilities. It's a major social justice issue. We should not be buying water when we have clean, safe water available. There has been an erosion of public confidence which might lead to further privatization of the water system. I think Poland Springs should be more culpable.
Yeah, I find buying water - simply cuz it's in a bottle, pure silliness.
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#7 May 06 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Yeah, I find buying water - simply cuz it's in a bottle, pure silliness.

Poland Spring tastes better than my tap water, so I'm going to continue drinking that.
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#8 May 06 2009 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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I've been distilling water. Lots of sludgy clearish-white stuff comes out of it, even after a Brita filter.
#9 May 06 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I find buying water - simply cuz it's in a bottle, pure silliness.

Poland Spring tastes better than my tap water, so I'm going to continue drinking that.
You should do a blind taste-test.

(Classic Coke > New Coke...I don't care if they are the same formula!!)

Edited, May 6th 2009 6:50pm by Elinda
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#10 May 06 2009 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've been distilling water. Lots of sludgy clearish-white stuff comes out of it, even after a Brita filter.
Freebies - woot!!

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#11 May 06 2009 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I find buying water - simply cuz it's in a bottle, pure silliness.

Poland Spring tastes better than my tap water, so I'm going to continue drinking that.


It's bigger than that. We should actively work against inroads to corporations privatizing water. This is a group who describes alot of reasons to oppose it:

http://www.citizen.org/cmep/Water/general/
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#12 May 06 2009 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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I drink unfiltered tap water. I even drink it regularly out of the bathroom tap!!~ Smiley: jawdrop

#13 May 06 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I listened pretty intently once to a story about a river up in Canada that, through a fairly circuitous route ended up being privately owned, that is, the water rights were privately owned. It started out that the farmers along the river, to insure equitable use for irrigation, began a coop. They essentially paid the province for the rights, but both parties failed to looked ahead.

Eventually one big developer started buying up the farmland and of course the water rights. So the developer is building houses, selling them to folks and then charging them for their water. It was pretty crazy. But it was Canada eh.

But yeah, knowing that much stricter, or at least much broader, governing of water rights will likely be necessary in the future, is part of what's makes me question the soundness of this willy-nilly regulation of one company.

I do think bottled water, unless it's for use in areas that lack potable water, very wasteful.

Edit to add - Poland Springs does not 'own' rights to the aquifer.



Edited, May 6th 2009 7:27pm by Elinda
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#14 May 06 2009 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:

I drink unfiltered tap water. I even drink it regularly out of the bathroom tap!!~ Smiley: jawdrop
Meh, dogs lap it out of the toilet.
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#15 May 06 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:

Edit to add - Poland Springs does not 'own' rights to the aquifer.
Yeah but unless the government entity that is levying this tax is dredging it up out of the ground prior to it being funneled to this company, neither do they.
#16 May 06 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Bauran wrote:
Elinda wrote:

Edit to add - Poland Springs does not 'own' rights to the aquifer.
Yeah but unless the government entity that is levying this tax is dredging it up out of the ground prior to it being funneled to this company, neither do they.
Groundwater is not dredged. But you're right the government doesn't own the water either. Much like the state of Alaska doesn't own the oil in the ground in Alaska. None-the-less they levy a tax on the oil companies for taking it out of the ground.




Edited, May 6th 2009 7:52pm by Elinda
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#17 May 06 2009 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Groundwater is not dredged.
My english to you-know-what-I-mean dictionary disagrees with you.

But that aside, I've never understood how we as the general public have let government as a whole get so far into our pockets via taxation to begin with. We've just gotten used to it I suspect, I mean we all (most all) complain about all the taxes we pay, but we still pay them. We're not truly a country of organizers anymore, which I suppose is good in it's own right.

While a lot of people like to romanticize about the fact our founding fathers fought to lesson the burden of their taxation they often forget they did so through a war against the government of their time.

Not a lot of people going to be rallying around that idea, and the ones that do are the crazies.
#18 May 06 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
Tap water in Phoenix is really terrible. It has a lot of minerals in it, making it fairly unpalatable. Fortunately, there are places that sell RO/DI (Reverse Osmosis/De-Ionized) water at 20 cents per gallon. The annoying part is lugging up the 5 gal things to my 2nd floor condo. Of course, the saltwater swim and reef tank necessitate getting many many gallons of RO/DI water, might as well drink it...
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