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Mission Accomplished?Follow

#1 Apr 30 2009 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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The British Military campaign in Iraq is now over.

We've handed over to the Ameh'cuns. If you buggers find WMD now it will be pretty embarrassing.
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#2 Apr 30 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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splitters!
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#4 Apr 30 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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SeventeenDiamonds wrote:
So the British government has made this completely independent decision based on entirely militarily justifiable arguments, to stop it's military operations in Iraq, after St. Obama has stated he will be withdrawing all american troops; and everything that goes on in Iraq from here on in will be in no way attributable to the British government, including the final withdrawal, which will now rest entirely in America's hands. Good for them. What courageous, selfless and decisive action from the world's most praised and yet most bitter ex-colonial power.
what the f*ck?
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#5 Apr 30 2009 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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It doesn't know how to use an enter key either.

It doesn't seem to have any character like varrus does either.
#6 Apr 30 2009 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
It doesn't know how to use an enter key either.

It doesn't seem to have any character like varrus does either.
It was also looking the other way when the Prime Minister agreed this with GW Bush last year Smiley: rolleyes
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#7 May 01 2009 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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Does it have the last name of Windsor? In which case it may be sour grapes the decision is not theirs to make.

On the other hand fault was always at the door of the President of the USA.
#9 May 01 2009 at 2:24 AM Rating: Good
SeventeenDiamonds wrote:
Quote:
It was also looking the other way when the Prime Minister agreed this with GW Bush last year


I don't see how my post in any way suggests that. My point was about Britain's position as the 51st state, and how the world and the world's media will react to it's position on the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, not about the people in charge of American foreign policy at the time the decisions were made, and I don't think I was unclear about that.


You had a point?

All I could see was some rambling about Britain withdrawing before the US. As if it made any difference anyway. Seriously, out of all the things you can blame Britain for, withdrwing from Iraq now should surely be the last on the list. If Britain had listened to its citizen, they wouldn't have gone there in the first place. It's pretty honourable of them to have stayed that long.
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#11 May 01 2009 at 2:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Australia beat you to it. We were out of that ******** as soon as Rudd got elected.

Granted, we just approved another few hundred troops to Afghanistan, but it's not as if we actually do anything. We export military engineers or something. They fix tanks.
#12 May 01 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Excellent
SeventeenDiamonds wrote:
Nobody, not even Iraqi militias or English soldiers cares about this decision.


I'm pretty sure English soldiers care about this decision. I'm pretty sure English citizens care about it too. I agree it doesn't matter much to the vast majority of Iraqis, not to the Americans, but not everything needs to be centered on what matters to Americans. 7/7 was mostly due to the UK's foreign policy in Iraq, so our withdrawal is pretty significant as a matter of domestic policy.

I will grant you that "honourable" might not have be the right word to use, though.

In other news, I found Fisk's view on it pretty interesting:

Quote:
One hundred and seventy-nine dead soldiers. For what? 179,000 dead Iraqis? Or is the real figure closer to a million? We don't know. And we don't care. We never cared about the Iraqis. That's why we don't know the figure. That's why we left Basra yesterday.


I remember going to the famous Basra air base to ask how a poor Iraqi boy, a hotel receptionist called Bahr Moussa, had died. He was kicked to death in British military custody. His father was an Iraqi policeman. I talked to him in the company of a young Muslim woman. The British public relations man at the airport was laughing. "I don't believe this," my Muslim companion said. "He doesn't care." She did. So did I. I had reported from Northern Ireland. I had heard this laughter before. Which is why yesterday's departure should have been called the Day of Bahr Moussa. Yesterday, his country was set free from his murderer. At last.

History is a hard taskmaster. In my library, I have an original copy of General Angus Maude's statement to the people of Baghdad – $2,000, it cost me, at a telephone auction a few days before we invaded Iraq in 2003, but it is worth every cent. "Our military operations have as their object," Maude announced, "the defeat of the enemy... our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies, but as liberators." And so it goes on. Maude, I should add, expired shortly afterwards because he declined to boil his milk in Baghdad and died of cholera.

There followed a familiar story. The British occupation force was opposed by an Iraqi resistance – "terrorists", of course – and the British destroyed a town called Fallujah and demanded the surrender of a Shiite cleric and British intelligence in Baghdad claimed that "terrorists" were crossing the border from Syria, and Lloyd George – the Blair-Brown of his age – then stood up in the House of Commons and said that there would be "anarchy" in Iraq if British troops left. Oh dear.

Even repeating these words is deeply embarrassing. Here, for example, is a letter written by Nijris ibn Qu'ud to a British intelligence agent in 1920: "You cannot treat us like sheep... it is we Iraqi who are the brains of the Arab nation... You are given a short time to clear out of Mesopotamia. If you don't go you will be driven out."

So let us turn at last to T E Lawrence. Yes, Lawrence of Arabia. In The Sunday Times on 22 August 1920, he wrote of Iraq that the people of England "had been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information... Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows." Even more presciently, Lawrence had written that the Iraqis had not risked their lives in battle to become British subjects. "Whether they are fit for independence or not remains to be tried. Merit is no justification for freedom."

Alas not. Iraq, begging around Europe now that its oil wealth has run out, is a pitiful figure. But it is a little bit freer than it was. We have destroyed its master and our friend (a certain Saddam) and now, with our own dead clanking around our heels, we are getting out yet again. Till next time...
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#13 May 01 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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SeventeenDiamonds wrote:
But they already have gotten involved. And they already have stayed there this long. The only media coverage left to be subject to on this issue is the withdrawal, which they have completely avoided by getting out before the absolute final withdrawal of the "coalition", which they've now left up to the US. It's one less possible issue for Gordon Brown to have to think up a meaningless press statement for.

So it's a good political move, then. I can't blame him for wanting to get that particular war out of the public spotlight as much as possible.

Also, Smiley: tinfoilhat much?
#15 May 01 2009 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
SeventeenDiamonds wrote:
What I was (possibly not quite so precisely) trying to say was that the US government's decision to end the Iraq war matters to British troops, because that's what's going to move them. The British decision to move troops around is just an inevitable symptom of that.


Yes and no, but mostly no. You can't say, on the one hand, that Britain's withdrawal doesn't matter at all because it anticipates the US's withdrawal, and then criticise the UK for withdrawing before the Americans thereby leaving them all alone.

Either their withdrawl matters, in which case you can blame Britain for leaving the US all alone, or it doesn't, in which case you can't. It seems like you're leaning towards the second proposition, but can't help have a dig at the UK anyway.
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#17 May 01 2009 at 4:11 AM Rating: Good
SeventeenDiamonds wrote:
Maybe I was unclear, I never intended to criticise the UK for withdrawing before the US "and thereby leaving them all alone".


17D wrote:
everything that goes on in Iraq from here on in will be in no way attributable to the British government, including the final withdrawal, which will now rest entirely in America's hands. Good for them. What courageous, selfless and decisive action from the world's most praised and yet most bitter ex-colonial power.


It sure sounded like it.

Quote:
My point was solely that the decisions about withdrawal from Iraq rests entirely (ENTIRELY) in the hands of the US,


Not really. I'm sure Brown could've decided to stay in Iraq longer had he wanted to.

Quote:
is only, if at all, worthy of comment in relation to the strategic media damage-control of Mr. Brown's impotent and doomed government.


I don't think that Brown's decision to withdraw now, as opposed to in 6 month time, makes any difference in terms of media damage-control. Brown is fucked beyond repair, and this decision will have no effect whatsoever on his standing.

Maybe you're new around here, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. When Nobby made this thread, it wasn't in a "Hurray, we're finally out of Iraq, what a brave and bold decision by Mr Brown, oh how we love him for being independent of the US!!" kinda spirit.
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#18 May 01 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
What courageous, selfless and decisive action from the world's most praised and yet most bitter ex-colonial power.


I think we should turn Iraq to glass, so that it could be the jewel in the crown of Britain's new Empire. That'd jolly well show those other traitorous dogs, eh old chap?
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