We have some military folks here, so someone tell me why this won't work. Move an aircraft carrier to the area and have a couple F-16s always in the air. A distress call comes in and the jet flies quickly to the area and checks it out. If a ship is indeed attacking another ship it blows it out of the water. The pirates lose a ship and some fellow pirates. Lather, rinse, repeat. Seems pretty easy to me. I can understand that it takes a navy ship a while to get to a problem area, but jets seem a tad bit faster to me.
So why wouldn't his work? Other than cost that is.
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The issue is the large number of fishing vessels which ply the waters in and around the shipping lanes-- many of which are indistinguishable from the very same type craft which are employed by the pirates. While naval aircraft could easily blast any such boat out of the water, the operational concerns of close proximity to the ship they are attempting to protect would keep them from shooting at the pirates.
A far better technique would be to loosen the financial liability connected with destroying a fishing/pirate boat and allow the shipping companies to proclaim a 100 meter safe zone around each container ship or oil tanker and be free from prosecution for sinking any ship which enters that space. Then encourage the companies which do the shipping to hire private security firms to provide the round-the-clock coverage, at least until the boats pass through the dangerous waters.
As it is, these companies don't want to expose themselves to the bad press and costs associated with killing "fishermen" which these pirates' families and clans would call them. At this time they'd rather pass the costs on the the insurance companies and consumers.
Totem
A far better technique would be to loosen the financial liability connected with destroying a fishing/pirate boat and allow the shipping companies to proclaim a 100 meter safe zone around each container ship or oil tanker and be free from prosecution for sinking any ship which enters that space. Then encourage the companies which do the shipping to hire private security firms to provide the round-the-clock coverage, at least until the boats pass through the dangerous waters.
As it is, these companies don't want to expose themselves to the bad press and costs associated with killing "fishermen" which these pirates' families and clans would call them. At this time they'd rather pass the costs on the the insurance companies and consumers.
Totem
The correct answer to the question of pirates is always, always ninjas.
what?
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 12:20am by catwho
what?
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 12:20am by catwho
catwho the Pest wrote:
The correct answer to the question of pirates is always, always ninjas.
what?
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 12:20am by catwho
what?
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 12:20am by catwho
It's mostly liability, like Totem said. They don't want a bucketload of civilian casualties from a misunderstanding.
Blockading the pirates home ports (there arn't many of them) with some naval hardware would be cheaper and more traditional.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Would work, we have a crapload of escort carriers in mothballs still, retrofit a few, strap some harriers or attack helicopters on them, and go to town.
The problem is, a warship is visable. its too easy to spot, pirates go to ground when it is nearby
There was a very effective british invention for dealing with Pirates. It was called the "Q" ship. You take a standard cargo hauler design, and you retrofit it so instead of hauling cargo, it is fully armored and heavily armed. False containers on deck hide a few harriers or F-35 STOl variants ready to go, large guns in hidden ports on the side, hell, you could even strap a battleship turret to the middle. Then you play fat and dumb merchanter. Drive it into ports, "buy" lucrative cargoes, let slip next ports of call, etc. Suffer "engine trouble" off the coast of Somalia (loudly, on all radio frequincies calling for help.
Then you wait.
The pirates show up, they fire a rocket at you. Your ship, armored with kevlar reinforced battle steel panels on the inside, shrugs it off and then you open fire on them with your hidden 5 pound destroyer cannons. They get vaporized, rinse repeat. Every so often change the paint scheme and layout, maybe add false superstructure elements to keep them guessing.
When the british ran them, they were highly effective. No reason they wouldn't work now. and you could combine them with a few warships to herd the pirate presence in the direction you want them to prey on.
Edited, Apr 16th 2009 9:44pm by Kaolian
The problem is, a warship is visable. its too easy to spot, pirates go to ground when it is nearby
There was a very effective british invention for dealing with Pirates. It was called the "Q" ship. You take a standard cargo hauler design, and you retrofit it so instead of hauling cargo, it is fully armored and heavily armed. False containers on deck hide a few harriers or F-35 STOl variants ready to go, large guns in hidden ports on the side, hell, you could even strap a battleship turret to the middle. Then you play fat and dumb merchanter. Drive it into ports, "buy" lucrative cargoes, let slip next ports of call, etc. Suffer "engine trouble" off the coast of Somalia (loudly, on all radio frequincies calling for help.
Then you wait.
The pirates show up, they fire a rocket at you. Your ship, armored with kevlar reinforced battle steel panels on the inside, shrugs it off and then you open fire on them with your hidden 5 pound destroyer cannons. They get vaporized, rinse repeat. Every so often change the paint scheme and layout, maybe add false superstructure elements to keep them guessing.
When the british ran them, they were highly effective. No reason they wouldn't work now. and you could combine them with a few warships to herd the pirate presence in the direction you want them to prey on.
Edited, Apr 16th 2009 9:44pm by Kaolian
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A far cheaper alternative that is not on the taxpayer's back is for the shipping companies to employ PMCs with snipers and assault teams. The teams would airlifted (helicoptered) in from a location where weapons were legal and then onloaded onto the ships.
From there? Boom.
Totem
From there? Boom.
Totem
Don't you all know you fight Pirates with a Motherfucking KRAKEN!
It's like you never watch movies!
It's like you never watch movies!
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
This is yet another problem that could be solved by an orbital railgun.
Just as Planned.
Timelordwho wrote:
This is yet another problem that could be solved by an orbital railgun.
True, but honestly, what problem can't be solved by an orbital railgun?
Timelordwho wrote:
This is yet another problem that could be solved by an orbital railgun.
What you need to do is take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Make sure they've seeded fully before nuking.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Killed by pirates is good!
Nexa
Nexa
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
paulsol wrote:
Blockading the pirates home ports (there arn't many of them) with some naval hardware would be cheaper and more traditional.
What would happen to all the legitimate fishermen?
Many of these bandits use skiffs, which have such a shallow draft they can be beached and thus launched virtually anywhere. Blockading the entire Somali shoreline isn't just impractical, it'd be impossible, especially considering what zepoodle said about legitimate fishing interests.
Totem
Totem
Totem wrote:
Many of these bandits use skiffs, which have such a shallow draft they can be beached and thus launched virtually anywhere. Blockading the entire Somali shoreline isn't just impractical, it'd be impossible, especially considering what zepoodle said about legitimate fishing interests.
Totem
Totem
What if we turn their beaches to glass, then blockade their ports? What will they do then, eh?
Why would you want to fight pirates? We all know the correlation between pirates and global warming.
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
You buy off some of the pirates and turn them into "Coast Guards", like we usually do with these kinds of problems.
How about take all of the billions of dollars that we're probably going to spend killing the bread-winners of some poor African families and just give them the damn money.. or use it to actually help the families or the countries....
Another thing that might help is to stop dumping nuclear waste on their lands.. that kinda stuff
Crazy , I know..
Another thing that might help is to stop dumping nuclear waste on their lands.. that kinda stuff
Crazy , I know..
catwho the Pest wrote:
The correct answer to the question of pirates is always, always ninjas.
what?
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 12:20am by catwho
what?
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 12:20am by catwho
We've got the ninjas, we just cant do anything with 'em. Eventually Cat, eventually.
Pretend to film the next Steven Seagal/American Ninja/Jean Claude Van Dam movie there. Offer all the pirates jobs as extras. The glamour of Hollywood will nullify them or you fill the good guys guns with live rounds on the last day of shooting. Surely pirates can understand the join or die concept.
As a side benefit we could stage an "accident" to finally rid ourselves of Seagal/Dam/whatnot
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 1:04pm by baelnic
As a side benefit we could stage an "accident" to finally rid ourselves of Seagal/Dam/whatnot
Edited, Apr 17th 2009 1:04pm by baelnic
zepoodle wrote:
paulsol wrote:
Blockading the pirates home ports (there arn't many of them) with some naval hardware would be cheaper and more traditional.
What would happen to all the legitimate fishermen?
I would assume (layman that I am) that legit fisherman don't go to sea tooled up with RPG's and AK47's, duh!
Or (channels random kneejerk poster) most of the pirates were local fishermen, making a new living as pirates, so fuck 'em.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Another thing that might help is to stop dumping nuclear waste on their lands.. that kinda stuff
Crazy , I know..
Maybe the first few "pirates" really did care, but it's well beyond that now. The world could be 100% free of nuclear anything, and these pirates would still do what they do, because they enjoy living like kings. They don't care about the issues that may or may not have began the whole thing.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
Quote:
What you need to do is take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
An orbital Railguns would be reloadable, and can be equipped with nuclear ordnance.
Quote:
What would happen to all the legitimate fishermen?
They'd become pirates, duh.
When we fight wars, we make sure that they are sustainable job-creating investments.
Just as Planned.
Merchant maritime laws prohibit firearms on merchant vessels, I believe. Plus many nations these ships visit do not allow firearms. Once in port, the vessel is subject to local laws. Apparently, the firearm bans work very well. Well enough for the pirates to be armed. Unfortunately, the police and military in many of these African and SE Asian countries are corrupt and/or inept.
The merchant ships do practice repelling pirates with bright lights, high pressure water hoses, and evasive maneuvers. Unfortunately, the threat of an RPG is more than enough for many captains and crews to stop fighting.
Aid disbursed through the country will not stop the pirates. They can make more individually by pirating than they can through other legal means. Why work for a bowlful of corn or rice when you can make a lot of money through the show of force? To truely dissuade pirating, the chance of loss must be greater than the chance of gain. These people aren't stupid, they'll figure it out once a few dozen of them are knocked off.
The merchant ships do practice repelling pirates with bright lights, high pressure water hoses, and evasive maneuvers. Unfortunately, the threat of an RPG is more than enough for many captains and crews to stop fighting.
Aid disbursed through the country will not stop the pirates. They can make more individually by pirating than they can through other legal means. Why work for a bowlful of corn or rice when you can make a lot of money through the show of force? To truely dissuade pirating, the chance of loss must be greater than the chance of gain. These people aren't stupid, they'll figure it out once a few dozen of them are knocked off.
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