Obamas sics bull **** on radical rightFollow

Varrus: The only reason the Asylum sees any activity at all.

Possibly. It's quite certain that much of what you haven't said is also 100% accurate.

I can't recall if it's been posted or not but here's the FBI report on ex-military in extremist organizations.

Funny how no one was screaming for Mueller to resign or for Bush to fire him despite this obvious evidence that they hate the military and think all soldiers are evil.

You mean Bush appointed Michael "Skeletor" Chertoff to go after Republican voting blocs. After all, they're the ones who spearheaded this report.

I don't understand what Varrus's issue is anyway. If there's one lesson the Pubbies drove home regarding domestic security, it's that "Unless you're doing something wrong you have nothing to worry (or complain) about".


Unlesssss..... maybe Varrus is a Right-Wing Extremist. Hrmmm...

Maybe because the report was about White Supremacist groups either sending their members into the military to get training or recruiting veterans out of the military into their organizations. It mentions specific groups and events that have occurred. It's an actual "report" on their activities.


In contrast to the recently released report, which mentions no specific groups and no specific actions, but merely lists broad types of activities which may be "signs" of right wing extremism.

How the data is presented kinda matters Joph.

Hey. Don't catch me up in one of Varrus' rants. I've been pretty much following the broad definition of right wing extremists and the timing of the report release, so I can't speak to all of the various arguments about who said what about our military, etc..


Having just read both reports now, there are some pretty noticeable differences in terms of how the military/extremism relationship is couched. The 2008 report goes out of it's way to ensure that anyone reading it realizes that this is specifically white supremacist and militia groups attempting to either place their members into the military or recruit military personnel and veterans. It also states repeatedly that the number of such recruitments and placements represent a "miniscule fraction" of the total military and veteran population at any given time.

The recent report has just one sentence referencing that and says that "some returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have joined extremist groups". Some is a far cry from "a miniscule fraction" and gives a pretty different perception of what's going on.

Couple that with the first two bullet points, the first of which refers to the 1990s and uses the "some" language, and the mentioned McVeigh specifically. The second has a quote from a "prominent civil rights organization (why not name it?), saying that "large numbers of potentially violent neo-*****, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.} armed forces". Um... So "miniscule fraction" is replaced with "some", "some", and "large numbers".


Words matter. How you present data and facts matter. I suspect that's what a lot of people are pissed off about. I'll admit to having first assumed it was mostly the timing that upset people, but having read the full thing myself, it appears as though this thing was written explicitly to make as many people afraid of anyone presenting a conservative point of view as possible.


I mean. Let's be honest. It's not like I haven't been called a racist, homophobe, and bigot many many times on this forum for doing nothing more than presenting a conservative viewpoint. Is it that hard to imaging that this is just an attempt to get a broader audience to have the same knee-jerk reactions to conservative ideas that we see often on internet forums just like this one?


I don't think so. And more chilling is that this is a report that will be used to set policies in various executive branch agencies. They'll justify actions based on the assessments within. And these are ridiculously broad. As I pointed out earlier, essentially every single libertarian is completely defined in this report as a "rightwing extremist". Period. Everyone advocating states rights is as well.


If you want to talk about chilling effects on free speech, a report like this trumps anything we've seen since the McCarthy era. It can be used to justify criminal investigation of anyone who is a conservative. Will it be? Dunno. Hopefully, we can get enough outrage about it, that they'll back down. But then, the outrage is doing the right thing, right? If we just meekly accept it, we might just one day find ourselves being picked up for our "radical views" and questioned. Heck. Someone might read the posts I make on this board, track me down and think I could become a "lone wolf" mentioned in the report. Can't have that now can we...?


Better outrage than apathy IMO.

I'll see yur Timothy McVeigh & raise ya a Ted Kaczynski !

The funny thing is in the US the biggest threat is usually NOT idealogical
in nature.

Greed & self interest rule, Crips & Bloods et al have been enrolling members in the Military for a long time...

True, however on an idealogical basis he was a member of Academe & anti technology... & probably had one of the smallest carbon footprints in the modern world.

Although he might not have been a member of a "Group" his habits would definately have slotted him into a dangerous Profile. (nowadays)

Idealogy & group identification are not mutually exclusive (or Inclusive)

Many join groups for personal inadequacies, regional concerns, etc...

Such as the "Anti Immigration" people (Media defined)

Versus the "Anti ILLEGAL Immigration" folks (Self Defined)

As I am a non-criminal who owns guns, I "May" be concerned about Gun control issues.

The real discussion about former Mil. Pers. is one of motivation.....
Have they been maligned as a group ? Have they seen firsthand what they were actually fighting ? etc dont want to tl;dr myself.

Interesting acknowledgment in first sentance "Current Economical and Political Climate...."

"Loss of U.S. sovereignty" is also kinda interesting.