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America, F--- Yeah!Follow

#1 Apr 08 2009 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Chicago Tribune wrote:
NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — Pentagon officials said Wednesday that the American crew of a U.S.-flagged cargo ship had retaken control from Somali pirates who hijacked the vessel far off the Horn of Africa.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because information was still preliminary. But they said the hijacked crew had apparently contacted the private company that operates the ship.
[...]
A U.S. official said the crew had retaken control and had one pirate in custody.

"The crew is back in control of the ship," a U.S. official said at midday, speaking on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak on the record. "It's reported that one pirate is on board under crew control — the other three were trying to flee," the official said. The status of the other pirates was unknown, the official said, but they were reported to "be in the water."
I was actually going to start a thread on this when the story was just that the pirates had taken a US crewed ship. This development (provided it holds out) removes some of the "Well, if we go in guns blazing, the hostages may die" aspect of it. So now the question is whether or not the US steps up efforts now that the pirates have shown willingness to hijack American vessels. Ok, technically it was a Danish owned ship but it was based out of the US and had a US crew. I assume it was flying US colors although the linked article says it's unclear if the pirates knew they were hijacking an American ship.

Anyway, since the cherry's been popped and we're not in immediate danger of having American hostages killed, should the US be changing its anti-piracy policies to a more active, hostile stance? Or do we just sigh deeply and return to the status quo? Would anyone here support a land-based operation to secure the coastal towns being used as bases? What if a Navy ship was sunk (Rockets, mines, speedboats full of explosives, etc)? Would you still be up for an extended mission?

Edited, Apr 8th 2009 11:48am by Jophiel
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#2 Apr 08 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I was listening to this story on my way into work today and was kinda wondering the same thing - would the US respond and how aggressively?...and did the pirates know it was a US ship?

They had also mentioned that it had taken all night for the pirates to gain control of the ship. I guess they didn't secure things very well. I was trying to picture though, how these guys, in their little outboards get control of great big cargo/oil vessels. These vessels are HUGE. How do they get on board in enough force to subdue the ships crew?

Anyway, score one for the the cowboys. That'll teach them wimpy-butt pirates to mess with the Americans.
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#3 Apr 08 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
These vessels are HUGE. How do they get on board in enough force to subdue the ships crew?
I believe the standard procedure is just ropes & ladders. The crews aren't armed (I don't think they're even allowed to be per international law since its a civilian ship) and even if the crew radios for help, it's likely that the nearest naval vessel will be hundreds of miles away. Once the local frigate catches up, the crew is already being held at gunpoint.

In stories about the oil freighter that was hijacked, they mentioned the pirates firing an RPG over the bow to give the message that, if the crew made Plan A untenable, Plan B involved the freighter going under the waves. Strong motivation not to fight back.
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#4 Apr 08 2009 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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I think you guys should just leave it to England. They've been fighting pirates for centuries.
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#5 Apr 08 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Clearly the solution is to train and hire other Somalians to fight the pirates. There's no way that will blow up in our faces a few years down the road.
#6 Apr 08 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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kylen wrote:
Clearly the solution is to train and hire other Somalians to fight the pirates. There's no way that will blow up in our faces a few years down the road.
The problem with this plan is that the Somalians don't have enough military hardware. They'd need to find some sort of a source for modern weaponry. Hrm.
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#7 Apr 08 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
kylen wrote:
Clearly the solution is to train and hire other Somalians to fight the pirates. There's no way that will blow up in our faces a few years down the road.
The problem with this plan is that the Somalians don't have enough military hardware. They'd need to find some sort of a source for modern weaponry. Hrm.
I've got it! You could train them using US military weaponry and then you could just leave it behind. It'd be cheaper than shipping it back home anyway.
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#8 Apr 08 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Default
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I think you guys should just leave it to England. They've been fighting paying off pirates for centuries.


ftfy
#9 Apr 08 2009 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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They may take our planes; they may take our ships, but they'll never take our freedom!
#10 Apr 08 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
In stories about the oil freighter that was hijacked, they mentioned the pirates firing an RPG over the bow to give the message that, if the crew made Plan A untenable, Plan B involved the freighter going under the waves. Strong motivation not to fight back.


Which RPG do they use, Pirate Quest?
#11 Apr 08 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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MentalFrog wrote:
They may take our planes; they may take our ships, but they'll never take our freedom!
Freedom is over-rated. I'd rather have cash.
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#12 Apr 08 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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MentalFrog wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
In stories about the oil freighter that was hijacked, they mentioned the pirates firing an RPG over the bow to give the message that, if the crew made Plan A untenable, Plan B involved the freighter going under the waves. Strong motivation not to fight back.


Which RPG do they use, Pirate Quest?
PotBS of course. It's the bestest.

Srsly, firing a grenade at a tanker full of oil seems a bit dicey.
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#13 Apr 08 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
Am I the only one who grinned at the fact that an American crew fought back and retook their vessel?


/cheesypatriotismgogo
#14 Apr 08 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Great BrownDuck wrote:
Am I the only one who grinned at the fact that an American crew fought back and retook their vessel?
Smiley: thumbsup
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#15 Apr 08 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
The crews aren't armed (I don't think they're even allowed to be per international law since its a civilian ship) and even if the crew radios for help, it's likely that the nearest naval vessel will be hundreds of miles away.


So I read Looking for a Ship, by John McPhee, which is a nonfiction book about US sailors and cargo ships. It seems to have been published in 1991. They are routinely attacked by thieves who steal cargo - and I think once one of the crew had been held hostage (on a ship) during their career.

I have no idea if it is legal or not, but they do arm themselves when thieves arrive (with handguns, really not much firepower). By the time they are armed, the thieves are already gone (apparently with what they were after). The ships are huge and the crews are tiny.

http://www.johnmcphee.com/looking.htm
#16 Apr 08 2009 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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So it seems that the pirates, when escaping, took the ship's captain hostage. The crew negotiated to release their pirate captive for the captain. But when the crew released the pirate, the pirates said "neener, neener" and still have the captain. Smiley: oyvey

Americans: Good at kicking ***, not as good at negotiating with pirates.

This isn't to diminish from the fact that they overpowered the pirates and took their ship back.
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#17 Apr 08 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, they were disinclined to acquiesce to the Americans' request.

#18 Apr 08 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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The ships that the pirates take vary in size, some are huge, and some... not so much. But the crews on these ships are generally very small. Every dollar spent on payroll is one less dollar of profit, so the ships are usually only manned with the minimum required by law for that class of ship. Very rarely is this more than 25, and its usually much less. Of that crew, only three are likely to even be awake during the early morning hours that pirates favor for attacks. One on the bridge, one down in the engineering spaces and one rover. If you can picture a ship 900 feet long and 100 feet wide, with a single rover walking the decks in the early morning hours, its not terribly difficult to imagine how easily the pirate can slip alongside or directly behind the ship and get aboard.

There is usually an area at the stern of the ship where the deck is much lower than elsewhere, and this is where the pirates usually choose to board. If they can't do it by stealth, they can usually do so with an impressive display of firepower the effectively puts an end to any resistance. Once aboard, most pirates just want to take whatever cash and easily marketable goods they can and get off again. Taking the entire ship is fairly unusual, but becoming more common as the pirates get more organized. There are some simple precautions that most ships take in waters known to be frequented by pirates, which include lighting the entire ship up, and having every fire hose spewing water into the air. Ships that do these simple things are letting the pirates know that they are taking precautions against boarders. The pirates usually have no trouble finding easier pickings elsewhere. Carrying weapons aboard to defend the ship is a problem when the ships enter the territorial waters of different nations. Each of them has different laws, and most of them flat out prohibit ships entering their waters from having any sort of firearms on board.

When a ship is taken, its not uncommon for the entire ship's cargo to turn up on the black market, while the ship itself is repainted and re-documented with bogus papers, and used by the pirates for smuggling. The pirates are not just small gangs of thugs, they're well organized, well connected, organized crime rackets. The Malacca Straits, between Malaysia and Sumatra, sees a huge volume of international shipping, and has hundreds of pirate attacks every year. There, part of recent upsurge in the volume of pirate attacks has to do with commercial fishing vessels. They gobble up every fish they can find, leaving nothing (or at least very slim pickings) for the local fisherman. With their livelihoods gone, they turn to piracy to survive. Since entire local economies are now based on piracy, the authorities in both countries have a difficult time getting any sort of cooperation from the locals, making investigations and prosecutions difficult.

Piracy is getting more and more expensive for the shipping and insurance industries every year. When it will become enough of a concern that the industrial nations of the world decide to make a concerted effort to eradicate it is anybody's guess.
#19 Apr 08 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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The crews aren't armed (I don't think they're even allowed to be per international law since its a civilian ship


They're allowed to be armed, it's just more expensive to pay ransoms than to have trained security people onboard. It's a straightforward cost/benefit situation. Regardless of sensationalism the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of ships aren't going to be attacked by pirates. The ones that are virtually never are sunk or significantly damaged. If the problem gets worse, it's a sure thing some nation state/international organization will show up with an armed force.


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#20 Apr 08 2009 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I just want to be a pirate. I think the eye patches and hook arms are nifty.

But, on a serious note, do whatever to keep our ships and cargo safe. Enough people get shot, not so many people are going to be willing to eff with our shiz.
#21 Apr 08 2009 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Monolithe wrote:
do whatever to keep our ships and cargo safe.
Well, beyond Smash's point that piracy in the region (although on the rise) affects only a small percentage of the thousands of boats & ships passing through that area on a daily basis, there's very few vessels actually registered in America. Most are registered in Libya, Liberia or Panama. The reason this particular ship was registered in the US was because it occassionally moved stuff for the Defense Department. Point being that there is very few of "our ships" on the sea, period.

Not that I'm against kicking pirate *** or anything.
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#22 Apr 09 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:

Well, they were disinclined to acquiesce to the Americans' request.

+1

To all the land-lubbers out there... 'means "no".
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#23 Apr 14 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Escalation:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy

Quote:
By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer Elizabeth A. Kennedy, Associated Press Writer – 4 mins ago
MOMBASA, Kenya – Somali pirates were back to business as usual Tuesday, defiantly seizing four more ships with 60 hostages after U.S. sharpshooters rescued an American freighter captain. "No one can deter us," one bandit boasted. The freed skipper, Richard Phillips, will return home to the United States on Wednesday, after reuniting with his 19-man crew in the Kenyan port of Mombasa, according to the shipping company Maersk Line Ltd.

The brigands grabbed more ships and hostages to show they would not be intimidated by President Barack Obama's pledge to confront the high-seas bandits, according to a pirate based in the Somali coastal town of Harardhere.

"Our latest hijackings are meant to show that no one can deter us from protecting our waters from the enemy because we believe in dying for our land," Omar Dahir Idle told The Associated Press by telephone.
#24 Apr 14 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Strangely (or not), a lot of the Somali pirates see themselves as 'volunteer coastguards' protecting their coastline from foreigners who come into their coastal waters to steal their fish stocks, thereby removing the pirates income as most of them were fishermen before taking up piracy, and also to deter the illegal dumping of industrial and nuclear waste wich over the last dozen years or so wich has caused numerous deaths in the coastal communities.

I'm not defending hostage taking and such, but to treat this situation as being isolated from the events of the recent history of the region is not going to help in the solving of the problem.

Sadly of course, this is exactly how it will be treated.
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#25 Apr 14 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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So... Are they fighting for their water or their land? I'm confuzzled...
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#26 Apr 14 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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So... Are they fighting for their water or their land? I'm confuzzled...


They're fighting for the high life. I mean literally. They can't get Miller High Life over there.
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