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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
gbaji wrote:
Spinning the argument into irrelevant details is what you do when you know your position is weak Joph. What does it say that this is done so often by those arguing against me?
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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Your own experience, or human experiences in general, are the method by which Empirical science is done.
Not what I'm talking about.
There is a difference between the content of experience and the constituents of experience. Empirical science doesn't talk about the latter.
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For Christs sake you have people on here who actually doubt that Christ existed; even in the face of conclusive evidence to the contrary.
I don't doubt that he existed, I just doubt that he was the son of god. Same way I think of every other idiot who claimed that back in those times.
10k before the site's inevitable death or bust
The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning
Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
Grandfather Driftwood wrote:
Quote:
For Christs sake you have people on here who actually doubt that Christ existed; even in the face of conclusive evidence to the contrary.
I don't doubt that he existed, I just doubt that he was the son of god. Same way I think of every other idiot who claimed that back in those times.
Yeah, I think most people think Jesus Christ was a real historical figure. It's just that Atheists believe he was a usual type of human being, if a charismatic and very good human being. Son of Joseph and Mary. Brother James, among other siblings. Either died when he was crucified, or alternatively, fainted enough to apear dead, and got taken down and his "body" put in a mausoleum, where he revived. Walked out of the mausoleum, and got the frick out of there while there was a death sentence on him, but first promised his followers "I'll come again".
It is usual for the suffocation death of a crucifixion to take 2 to 3 days. Christ was taken down from the cross within the first day of being strung up. That's always been a bit peculiar. Although it might have been political necessity to stop the riots.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 10:09am by Aripyanfar
Aripyanfar wrote:
It is usual for the suffocation death of a crucifixion to take 2 to 3 days. Christ was taken down from the cross within the first day of being strung up.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
It is usual for the suffocation death of a crucifixion to take 2 to 3 days. Christ was taken down from the cross within the first day of being strung up.
Yup.
Athiests can choose from two scenarios. Either Christ died on the cross, and stayed dead, or he never truly died on the cross, he only appeared to, and he snuck out of town later.
Not to play the athiest but, assuming Jesus was a real human being, you neglect: Christ died on the cross, was buried and the Resurrection was made up with his body being stolen or something. Which I suppose ties in with Scenario 1 of yours but I don't know if it's what you intended.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 9:40am by Jophiel
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 9:40am by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I had a lobster the other night. According to the bible that's an abomination.
Does that make me as evil as the gays?
Never mind, I was baptized.
Does that make me as evil as the gays?
Never mind, I was baptized.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Omegavegeta wrote:
Does that make me as evil as the gays?
And, if you are Jewish, you're already evil anyway you dirty Zionist.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Not to play the athiest but, assuming Jesus was a real human being, you neglect: Christ died on the cross, was buried and the Resurrection was made up with his body being stolen or something. Which I suppose ties in with Scenario 1 of yours but I don't know if it's what you intended.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 9:40am by Jophiel
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 9:40am by Jophiel
Yeah, any variation of either scenario is fine. The point being that Atheists usually believe much or most of the Christ stories, they just cut out the supernatural bits. Or they think of him as a legendary figure. A real person with a lot of stories attached to him over the centuries.
Aripyanfar wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
It is usual for the suffocation death of a crucifixion to take 2 to 3 days. Christ was taken down from the cross within the first day of being strung up.
Yup.
Athiests can choose from two scenarios. Either Christ died on the cross, and stayed dead, or he never truly died on the cross, he only appeared to, and he snuck out of town later.
Then, of course, there's the "The resurrection never happened, and it was just made up so that people would believe in god" scenario.
I mean, it's not like Jesus was resurrected and then stuck around town talking about how cool his dad is and healing people, right? He was "resurrected" and went on to heaven. Sounds to me like he was dead, and maybe they did whatever funeral rites that were preformed at the time to release the spirit into the ether. Unless I've got the ressurection story wrong. Which is always possible.
I'm of the "Jesus was a real guy with some cool ideas for his time, but not the son of god and not a zombie" camp, myself. I'm not an athiest, but I don't believe Jesus was the embodiment of a supernatural force, either.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 10:22am by Belkira
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I'm of the "Jesus was a real guy with some cool ideas for his time, but not the son of god and not a zombie" camp, myself. I'm not an athiest, but I don't believe Jesus was the embodiment of a supernatural force, either.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 10:24am by AshOnMyTomatoes
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I mean, it's not like Jesus was resurrected and then stuck around town talking about how cool his dad is and healing people, right? He was "resurrected" and went on to heaven. Sounds to me like he was dead, and maybe they did whatever funeral rites that were preformed at the time to release the spirit into the ether. Unless I've got the ressurection story wrong. Which is always possible.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I mean, it's not like Jesus was resurrected and then stuck around town talking about how cool his dad is and healing people, right? He was "resurrected" and went on to heaven. Sounds to me like he was dead, and maybe they did whatever funeral rites that were preformed at the time to release the spirit into the ether. Unless I've got the ressurection story wrong. Which is always possible.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I'm of the "Jesus was a real guy with some cool ideas for his time, but not the son of god and not a zombie" camp, myself. I'm not an athiest, but I don't believe Jesus was the embodiment of a supernatural force, either.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 10:24am by AshOnMyTomatoes
Or Muslim ^-^
Jophiel wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I mean, it's not like Jesus was resurrected and then stuck around town talking about how cool his dad is and healing people, right? He was "resurrected" and went on to heaven. Sounds to me like he was dead, and maybe they did whatever funeral rites that were preformed at the time to release the spirit into the ether. Unless I've got the ressurection story wrong. Which is always possible.
Yeah, that's the part I don't believe.
I always wondered if the whole Son of God think was supposed to be symbolic, like we're all the sons of God or he is living as the Son of God (i.e. rejecting materialism, helping the poor) and after he died, they started taking it all literally.
I don't blame all the apostles. I think that one of the more assholish ones probably mucked it up.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 12:33pm by Annabella
I don't blame all the apostles. I think that one of the more assholish ones probably mucked it up.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 12:33pm by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Like that misogynist self-hating closet case, Paul. 
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Warchief Annabella wrote:
I always wondered if the whole Son of God think was supposed to be symbolic, like we're all the sons of God or he is living as the Son of God (i.e. rejecting materialism, helping the poor) and after he died, they started taking it all literally.
I don't blame all the apostles. I think that one of the more assholish ones probably mucked it up.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 12:33pm by Annabella
I don't blame all the apostles. I think that one of the more assholish ones probably mucked it up.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 12:33pm by Annabella
Some of the lost scrolls and stuff say that he actually DID go on tour with Mary and Joseph, to Europe, and performed a ton of miracles and things there, but it didn't catch on until hundreds of years later when Charlemagne decided it was cool.
The reason they were lost is because nobody liked that version of the story, and any written copies of it were scrubbed from canon and destroyed. But it remained in some of the oral legends of isolated peoples for a long, long time.
That's the main reason I don't trust the Bible by itself. The whole story has been censored too much, to force it to fit someone's political agenda. We're still missing a ton of pieces of what really happened, and until we do, the sanitized Christian version used today has warped and distorted it to the breaking point.
The reason they were lost is because nobody liked that version of the story, and any written copies of it were scrubbed from canon and destroyed. But it remained in some of the oral legends of isolated peoples for a long, long time.
That's the main reason I don't trust the Bible by itself. The whole story has been censored too much, to force it to fit someone's political agenda. We're still missing a ton of pieces of what really happened, and until we do, the sanitized Christian version used today has warped and distorted it to the breaking point.
Ash&c wrote:
Wasn't he supposedly of royal Jewish descent?
I suppose you could put it that way. He was purportedly descended from David.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
catwho the Pest wrote:
Some of the lost scrolls and stuff say that he actually DID go on tour with Mary and Joseph, to Europe, and performed a ton of miracles and things there, but it didn't catch on until hundreds of years later when Charlemagne decided it was cool.
The reason they were lost is because nobody liked that version of the story, and any written copies of it were scrubbed from canon and destroyed. But it remained in some of the oral legends of isolated peoples for a long, long time.
That's the main reason I don't trust the Bible by itself. The whole story has been censored too much, to force it to fit someone's political agenda. We're still missing a ton of pieces of what really happened, and until we do, the sanitized Christian version used today has warped and distorted it to the breaking point.
The reason they were lost is because nobody liked that version of the story, and any written copies of it were scrubbed from canon and destroyed. But it remained in some of the oral legends of isolated peoples for a long, long time.
That's the main reason I don't trust the Bible by itself. The whole story has been censored too much, to force it to fit someone's political agenda. We're still missing a ton of pieces of what really happened, and until we do, the sanitized Christian version used today has warped and distorted it to the breaking point.
It depends on how you see it, I guess. It's either a thing that God is still speaking or it's a thing that we believe the Bible as an transcendentally awesome document for all time. I'll bet that like the constitution, it was known to be part of the times by the writers who expected eventual change but the orthodoxy and fundamentalists types think we should continue to take it literally. I don't know if the Bible was meant to be unaltered through milennia. That doesn't seem realistic that God would do a bunch of **** and then abruptly stop communicating.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 12:59pm by Annabella
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 12:59pm by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
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Athiests can choose from two scenarios. Either Christ died on the cross, and stayed dead, or he never truly died on the cross, he only appeared to, and he snuck out of town later.
Really? Cos I much prefer the "I don't have a @#%^ing clue" card, mainly because I'm not a historian. Maybe he didn't exist at all? Hell if I know.
I'll defer to elaine pegels or something.
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That doesn't seem realistic that God would do a bunch of sh*t and then abruptly stop communicating.
In religion? Lady, that's par for the course.
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I always wondered if the whole Son of God think was supposed to be symbolic, like we're all the sons of God or he is living as the Son of God (i.e. rejecting materialism, helping the poor) and after he died, they started taking it all literally.
I might be rusty or confusing one sect for another but I thought that's part ofwhat the manichees believed. I'll go check. Yeah I think I got the right ones. I always confuse them with the marcionites. I remember most of manichean doctrine in respect to the confessions.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 1:27pm by Pensive
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