Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Ever heard of Nils-Axel Mörner?Follow

#27 Mar 31 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
CoalHeart wrote:

A-Ha! I knew it! They called me crazy. They called me a conspiracy theory nut, but I knew it! You two are part of a secret society that travels the universe and plants the corrupt, evil, demon seed of Humanity on other planets.


Destroyer of Worlds, you shall be vanquished!
wurd.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#28 Mar 31 2009 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Do you guys think that in 50 years time, denying Global Warming will be a bit like Holocause deniers today? Our kids will be like "Well, why didn't you do anything about it?" and we'll have to answer "Well, because a whole bunch of people didn't want to believe the evidence, and they decided we should do nothing instead" And they'll be like "Really? Who??" and we'll be like "Well, gbaji mostly", and then we'll have to stop talking and start paddling in search of dry land which might or might not exist anymore.
____________________________
My politics blog and stuff - Refractory
#29 Mar 31 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,007 posts
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Do you guys think that in 50 years time, denying Global Warming will be a bit like Holocause deniers today? Our kids will be like "Well, why didn't you do anything about it?" and we'll have to answer "Well, because a whole bunch of people didn't want to believe the evidence, and they decided we should do nothing instead" And they'll be like "Really? Who??" and we'll be like "Well, gbaji mostly", and then we'll have to stop talking and start paddling in search of dry land which might or might not exist anymore.
And then the Smokers will come, led by Dennis Hopper, and we'll have to ally ourselves with The Mariner in order to survive, all the while fending off attacks with our surprisingly-sophisticated catamaran with lots of sweet gadgets.
#30 Mar 31 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Do you guys think that in 50 years time, denying Global Warming will be a bit like Holocause deniers today? Our kids will be like "Well, why didn't you do anything about it?" and we'll have to answer "Well, because a whole bunch of people didn't want to believe the evidence, and they decided we should do nothing instead" And they'll be like "Really? Who??" and we'll be like "Well, gbaji mostly", and then we'll have to stop talking and start paddling in search of dry land which might or might not exist anymore.
And then the Smokers will come, led by Dennis Hopper, and we'll have to ally ourselves with The Mariner in order to survive, all the while fending off attacks with our surprisingly-sophisticated catamaran with lots of sweet gadgets.


Hmm... If this ever happens, we won't be on the same side, Ash.

I promise to chuck your body in a place where the water is a nice shade of blue. That's the least I can do.
____________________________
My politics blog and stuff - Refractory
#31 Mar 31 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,240 posts
Quote:
Fact is, we can kill ourselves, but the planet will be fine.


I like when people say this and do not define what "fine" means in this case.

____________________________
Just as Planned.
#32 Mar 31 2009 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
**
505 posts
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Do you guys think that in 50 years time, denying Global Warming will be a bit like Holocause deniers today? Our kids will be like "Well, why didn't you do anything about it?" and we'll have to answer "Well, because a whole bunch of people didn't want to believe the evidence, and they decided we should do nothing instead" And they'll be like "Really? Who??" and we'll be like "Well, gbaji mostly", and then we'll have to stop talking and start paddling in search of dry land which might or might not exist anymore.



If he were talking to me 50 years from now, I'd ask why his creepy *** was talking to dead folks.


On a (slightly) more serious note. I suppose I should make a list of all the bad things that happened 50 years ago and ask anyone that was alive back then why they didn't stop it.
____________________________
Never regret.To regret is to assume.
#33 Mar 31 2009 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
One thing I've been wondering since investigating this for a project for my English class is if this movement have the endurance needed to make a difference. Supposing that the climate is changing and it is because of man made reasons, it seems to me that the amount of change needed by mankind to make a difference in the global climate will take decades if not centuries.

There always seems to be something that the media and others latch on to for their latest scoop, and then it is cast by the wayside for the next big crisis. I don't know if the global warming crisis has the legs it needs.

That being said I don't think that attempting to lower our carbon foot print, find more efficient ways of generating energy, and generally taking care of our surroundings is a bad thing.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 1:24pm by Wint
#34 Mar 31 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
**
505 posts
Wint wrote:

That being said I don't think that attempting to lower our carbon foot print, find more efficient ways of generating energy, and generally taking care of our surroundings is a bad thing.



I'd think that right there would give the movement the support it needs. It'd take a monumental douche to argue with you on those points. Then again, that's just my opinion.
____________________________
Never regret.To regret is to assume.
#35 Mar 31 2009 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
CoalHeart wrote:
I suppose I should make a list of all the bad things that happened 50 years ago and ask anyone that was alive back then why they didn't stop it.


I used to ask my dad why no one stopped the ***** before they killed millions of Jews, eventhough he was 4 when the war ended.

Kids.
____________________________
My politics blog and stuff - Refractory
#36 Mar 31 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
**
505 posts
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
CoalHeart wrote:
I suppose I should make a list of all the bad things that happened 50 years ago and ask anyone that was alive back then why they didn't stop it.


I used to ask my dad why no one stopped the ***** before they killed millions of Jews, eventhough he was 4 when the war ended.

Kids.



So, by your logic, he should have blamed his Dad. Your logic is sound indeed.


EDIT: As for my definition of "Fine" : Just Google Catherine Zeta Jones.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 11:36am by CoalHeart
____________________________
Never regret.To regret is to assume.
#37 Mar 31 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
*****
19,369 posts
paulsol wrote:
Jophiel said :

Quote:
I have to wonder at the credentials of a guy who endorses water dowsing



Elinda said :
Quote:
I worked with well drilling companies, oh as recently as maybe 6 years ago that still used dowsers. Course it was in Maine.


Yup. Dowsing works. I've seen it work. There was a guy I worked for in Australia years ago, who used to dowse in peoples paddocks for water. Then he used to drill down and there would be water. Every time.

I don't know how it works, but it does.


post hoc
#38 Mar 31 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
CoalHeart wrote:
Wint wrote:

That being said I don't think that attempting to lower our carbon foot print, find more efficient ways of generating energy, and generally taking care of our surroundings is a bad thing.



I'd think that right there would give the movement the support it needs. It'd take a monumental douche to argue with you on those points. Then again, that's just my opinion.


This is true but it seems to me that the average person couldn't give a **** about these things unless it were causing them very acute pain. They weren't worried about gas until prices hit $5 a gallon and Smart cars started becoming en vogue. Now that gas is back down Smart cars are sitting on the lots (since the company said that you could back out of your order and get your $100 back) and SUV sales are going back up Smiley: rolleyes.
#39 Mar 31 2009 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
****
4,158 posts
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Do you guys think that in 50 years time, denying Global Warming will be a bit like Holocause deniers today? Our kids will be like "Well, why didn't you do anything about it?" and we'll have to answer "Well, because a whole bunch of people didn't want to believe the evidence, and they decided we should do nothing instead" And they'll be like "Really? Who??" and we'll be like "Well, gbaji mostly", and then we'll have to stop talking and start paddling in search of dry land which might or might not exist anymore.


While my kids may be sat on the beach grumpy at the fact that the sea is 115mm Smiley: yikes deeper than it was 50 years before, I find it far more likely that they will be grumpy at the fact that the beach is covered in mountains of discarded plastic bottles and bags all coated in oil and tar, and realising that there's no fish in the seas worth catching anymore, and a little upset that their children have an assortment of genetic dieases caused by industrial farming methods and the last nuclear conflagration.

S'funny how we could do something about all those things right now, today, but we're not because we're all wetting ourselves that the ice-caps may (or may not) be melting, just like they always do on a (geologicaly) regular basis.

____________________________
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#40 Mar 31 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
paulsol wrote:
S'funny how we could do something about all those things right now, today, but we're not because we're all wetting ourselves that the ice-caps may (or may not) be melting, just like they always do on a (geologicaly) regular basis.
Is that why we're not doing enough about over-fishing, nuclear proliferation and Monsanto? Because of people worried about the ice caps?

I had no idea that worrying about ice caps took so much time.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#41 Mar 31 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
paulsol wrote:

While my kids may be sat on the beach grumpy at the fact that the sea is 115mm Smiley: yikes deeper than it was 50 years before, I find it far more likely that they will be grumpy at the fact that the beach is covered in mountains of discarded plastic bottles and bags all coated in oil and tar, and realising that there's no fish in the seas worth catching anymore, and a little upset that their children have an assortment of genetic dieases caused by industrial farming methods and the last nuclear conflagration.

S'funny how we could do something about all those things right now, today, but we're not because we're all wetting ourselves that the ice-caps may (or may not) be melting, just like they always do on a (geologicaly) regular basis.
Do you thing these things are exclusive of one another?

Addressing Global Warming means first and foremost breaking our addiction on fossil fuels. This should help solve the oil and tar coating on the bottles and bags. Oh, and the bottles and bags are made from petro-chemicals. So they fall under the same umbrella of environmental pollutant. While the soda bottle washing up on the beach might not be pretty it's not nearly as detrimental to ones health as breathing ground level ozone and co2 with it's carcinogenic laden particulates. Why are the fish in the seas inedible? Most likely lead, mercury or other heavy metals - again a by-product of burning crap. And yes, we're doing plenty thanks.

If you're concerned about a pop bottle on the beach - go pick it up.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#42 Mar 31 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
****
4,158 posts
Jophiel wrote:


I had no idea that worrying about ice caps took so much time.
Is that why we're not doing enough about over-fishing, nuclear proliferation and Monsanto? Because of people worried about the ice caps?


I would be interested to see a comparison between the amount of media coverage dedicated to global warming, as opposed to all of the above. 10/1? 20/1? 50/1?

Another interesting comparison imo, would be the amount of cash being spent trying to prove that GW is man-made, and the amount of cash being spent actually doing something useful in regards to the above problems that we know without a doubt, that we are causing.




____________________________
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#43 Mar 31 2009 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
paulsol wrote:
I would be interested to see a comparison between the amount of media coverage dedicated to global warming, as opposed to all of the above. 10/1? 20/1? 50/1?


Circa 1970-something. I couldn't help myself. I had to post this link.
#44 Mar 31 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
paulsol wrote:
I would be interested to see a comparison between the amount of media coverage dedicated to global warming, as opposed to all of the above. 10/1? 20/1? 50/1?


Circa 1970-something. I couldn't help myself. I had to post this link.
Hah! I remember when that commercial was on tv:)
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#45 Mar 31 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
paulsol wrote:


Another interesting comparison imo, would be the amount of cash being spent trying to prove that GW is man-made, and the amount of cash being spent actually doing something useful in regards to the above problems that we know without a doubt, that we are causing.
Hey, if nothing else the global warming scare, real or not, has gotten alot of people and lawmakers off their butts and doing something positive about our dirty wastefulness.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#46 Mar 31 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
****
4,158 posts
Belkira the Tulip wrote:


Circa 1970-something. I couldn't help myself. I had to post this link.


Youtube is blocked where I work attend.
____________________________
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#47 Mar 31 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
*****
19,369 posts
Elinda wrote:
paulsol wrote:


Another interesting comparison imo, would be the amount of cash being spent trying to prove that GW is man-made, and the amount of cash being spent actually doing something useful in regards to the above problems that we know without a doubt, that we are causing.
Hey, if nothing else the global warming scare, real or not, has gotten alot of people and lawmakers off their butts and doing something positive about our dirty wastefulness.


Pffft, hardly.
#48 Mar 31 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
paulsol wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:


Circa 1970-something. I couldn't help myself. I had to post this link.


Youtube is blocked where I work attend.


This is the only other place I can find it.
#49 Mar 31 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
paulsol wrote:
I would be interested to see a comparison between the amount of media coverage dedicated to global warming, as opposed to all of the above. 10/1? 20/1? 50/1?
I wouldn't be because it wouldn't do much to show that the reason why people aren't scouring the beaches for soda bottles is because they're too busy wringing their hands over polar bears.
Quote:
Another interesting comparison imo, would be the amount of cash being spent trying to prove that GW is man-made, and the amount of cash being spent actually doing something useful in regards to the above problems that we know without a doubt, that we are causing.
If you're strictly speaking climate studies, I'd guess that the other things dwarf them. If you're speaking the whole climate change thing as a whole, I doubt you could separate them. Things such as marine biology, urban air pollution and sustainable agriculture are too tied it.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 2:33pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#50 Mar 31 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
****
4,158 posts
Quote:
How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.

If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?

Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.

The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man --- all belong to the same family.

So, when the Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land, he asks much of us. The Great Chief sends word he will reserve us a place so that we can live comfortably to ourselves. He will be our father and we will be his children.

So, we will consider your offer to buy our land. But it will not be easy. For this land is sacred to us. This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you the land, you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that each ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.

The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our canoes, and feed our children. If we sell you our land, you must remember, and teach your children, that the rivers are our brothers and yours, and you must henceforth give the rivers the kindness you would give any brother.

We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's grave behind, and he does not care. He kidnaps the earth from his children, and he does not care. His father's grave, and his children's birthright are forgotten. He treats his mother, the earth, and his brother, the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold like sheep or bright beads. His appetite will devour the earth and leave behind only a desert.

I do not know. Our ways are different than your ways. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the red man. There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to hear the unfurling of leaves in spring or the rustle of the insect's wings. The clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lonely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around the pond at night? I am a red man and do not understand. The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind darting over the face of a pond and the smell of the wind itself, cleaned by a midday rain, or scented with pinon pine.

The air is precious to the red man for all things share the same breath, the beast, the tree, the man, they all share the same breath. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days he is numb to the stench. But if we sell you our land, you must remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with all the life it supports.

The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also receives his last sigh. And if we sell you our land, you must keep it apart and sacred as a place where even the white man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow's flowers.

So we will consider your offer to buy our land. If we decide to accept, I will make one condition - the white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers.

I am a savage and do not understand any other way. I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be made more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive.

What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of the spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected.

You must teach your children that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of our grandfathers. So that they will respect the land, tell your children that the earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach your children that we have taught our children that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves.

This we know; the earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.

Even the white man, whose God walks and talks with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see. One thing we know which the white man may one day discover; our God is the same God.

You may think now that you own Him as you wish to own our land; but you cannot. He is the God of man, and His compassion is equal for the red man and the white. The earth is precious to Him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator. The whites too shall pass; perhaps sooner than all other tribes. Contaminate your bed and you will one night suffocate in your own waste.

But in your perishing you will shine brightly fired by the strength of the God who brought you to this land and for some special purpose gave you dominion over this land and over the red man.

That destiny is a mystery to us, for we do not understand when the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses are tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires.

Where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone.

The end of living and the beginning of survival.


Chief Seattle, 1854.
____________________________
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#51 Mar 31 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
13,007 posts
That's beautiful. I hate the white man. Smiley: mad
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 274 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (274)