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Ever heard of Nils-Axel Mörner?Follow

#1 Mar 30 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
Article here.

As I burn through arrows in the middle of Bhaflau, I came across this article and thought I might post it and see what (if any) thought might be given it.

Excerpt:

Quote:
One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC's favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a "corrective factor" of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they "needed to show a trend".

When I spoke to Dr Mörner last week, he expressed his continuing dismay at how the IPCC has fed the scare on this crucial issue. When asked to act as an "expert reviewer" on the IPCC's last two reports, he was "astonished to find that not one of their 22 contributing authors on sea levels was a sea level specialist: not one".



Wiki article on the man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils-Axel_Morner


Is this another so-called discredited scientist I should be aware of?
#2 Mar 30 2009 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had no idea there's any such entity as a "sea level specialist". That seems like a pretty narrow field.

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#3 Mar 30 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Batshit insane. I'm not sure why it is people so frequently discount the possibility of someone with a PhD losing touch with reality.

I have no idea if his for profit booklet represents accurate facts, nor much interest in finding out. I'm sure Joph will be along soon enough to do the 11 seconds of research required for that endeavor.

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#4 Mar 30 2009 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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KinleyArdal wrote:
Is this another so-called discredited scientist I should be aware of?
Beats me. Although, and I fully admit that one doesn't prove/disprove the other, I have to wonder at the credentials of a guy who endorses water dowsing Smiley: dubious
Column wrote:
The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a "corrective factor" of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they "needed to show a trend".
This is the sort of thing that deserves a cite on the part of Mr. Booker.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5 Mar 30 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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KinleyArdal wrote:
As I burn through arrows in the middle of Bhaflau, I came across this article and thought I might post it and see what (if any) thought might be given it.


Why do posters do this? They post some article or website and then ask for thoughts and opinions without posting their own. Grow some balls, take a stance and shove it in our faces.
#6 Mar 30 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
I'm sure Joph will be along soon enough to do the 11 seconds of research required for that endeavor.
Meh.

The Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society ran a piece back in May 2008 saying that overall sea levels may actually decrease slightly due to tectonic shifts which are deepening the world's oceans. However, it's only be a very slight amount and, if there's an ice melt-off which adds significant water to the oceans, then it would more than mitigate the deepening factor.

The May 2007 journal Global Change Biology has a piece tracking rising sea levels along the Florida coast. The Sept 2007 edition of Diversity & Distributions has a study about global salt marshes and the impact of rising sea levels on them. The CSIRO Marine & Atmospheric Research Center in Australia seems pretty convinced, using satellite data, that sea levels are rising at an increasing rate down there. They blame it on a variety of causes from natural fluctuations to land-based glacial melt-off.

That's about as much work as I feel like doing. The ones who always "question" it are never satisfied by scientific studies anyway when the dogma of "Nuh-uh, it ain't so!" will suffice. I'm actually going to bow out of this thread until someone posts an actual scientific study with some data worth responding to.

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 6:03pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#7 Mar 30 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
KinleyArdal wrote:

Is this another so-called discredited scientist I should be aware of?


You want a global warming skeptic try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_dyson

If you are going to start yet another global warming thread, please try to not show basic ignorance of what science is. It's only then that I feel any real urge to post in those threads.

Thanks.
#8 Mar 30 2009 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
There is some credence to the "ballast" argument - that the sea levels won't rise significantly because the ocean is heavier than the land and the sea will just deepen to accommodate the water, squishing the continental plates upward like a stress toy.

Unfortunately, no one with scientific equipment was around to measure sea levels the last time this happened, so all we have to go on is the evidence. And the evidence is that as glaciers melt sea levels rise, period. As glaciers form, sea levels drop, period.

#9 Mar 30 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Some scientists (British, I think), just a couple of weeks ago had some equipment launched into orbit that will for the first time actually be able to accurately measure global sea-levels.

Until now, sea levels have been measured locally, and those measurements are very difficult if not impossible to corelate with each other or with variations in regional topography.

Ps. I'm not a 'sea level specialist', but i can unnerringly tell you exactly what time the High tide will be on a given day.
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#10 Mar 30 2009 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
but i can unnerringly tell you exactly what time the High tide will be on a given day.
There ya go. Sea Level Specialist = Surfer.

I worked with well drilling companies, oh as recently as maybe 6 years ago that still used dowsers. Course it was in Maine.

Anna, PI STILL fails to offer up a decent bagel OR cup of coffee. Musta been the heyday of The County economic boom if they had a Bonanza.
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#11 Mar 30 2009 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel said :

Quote:
I have to wonder at the credentials of a guy who endorses water dowsing



Elinda said :
Quote:
I worked with well drilling companies, oh as recently as maybe 6 years ago that still used dowsers. Course it was in Maine.


Yup. Dowsing works. I've seen it work. There was a guy I worked for in Australia years ago, who used to dowse in peoples paddocks for water. Then he used to drill down and there would be water. Every time.

I don't know how it works, but it does.
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#12 Mar 30 2009 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:

Yup. Dowsing works. I've seen it work. There was a guy I worked for in Australia years ago, who used to dowse in peoples paddocks for water. Then he used to drill down and there would be water. Every time.

I don't know how it works, but it does.
^^

I don't believe it.
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#13 Mar 30 2009 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:


I don't believe it.


And neither should you!

Because after all, in this day and age, we can rest assured that 'scientists' have explained all there is to know about life, the universe and everything, leaving us with no doubt whatsoever that we have reached the pinnacale of all knowledge.
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#14 Mar 30 2009 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol wrote:
Because after all, in this day and age, we can rest assured that 'scientists' have explained all there is to know about life, the universe and everything, leaving us with no doubt whatsoever that we have reached the pinnacale of all knowledge.
No, I don't believe it because the ones making the claims have failed to prove them beyond random chance. Multiple experiments have been done and you'd have as much chance of finding water with a stick as you would by throwing darts while blindfolded. It has nothing to do with science "explaining all" and everything to do with dowsing experiments proving nothing.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#15 Mar 30 2009 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
It's because that, unless there's a major drought, no matter where you drill, you'll hit a water table and thus water eventually . . .

Now, shooting a hole on the ground and unplugging a natural spring, that's a talent.
#16 Mar 30 2009 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel said :
Quote:
No, I don't believe it because the ones making the claims have failed to prove them beyond random chance.


What. Like the reurrection and the virgin birth and stuff??
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#17 Mar 30 2009 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol wrote:
What. Like the reurrection and the virgin birth and stuff??
Good thing I've never posted here that they're true, I guess. Or fell back on some lame "Oh 'cause science is just always sooooo right..." defense, huh? Smiley: laugh
catwho the Pest wrote:
Now, shooting a hole on the ground and unplugging a natural spring, that's a talent.
Even better if out comes bubblin' crude.

Oil, that is. Black gold. Texas tea.

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 11:39pm by Jophiel
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#18 Mar 30 2009 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Or fell back on some lame "Oh 'cause science is just always sooooo right..." defense, huh? Smiley: laugh

Well you are basing your claim on a scientific study and validating the study with a scientific perspective. It must be circular logic.
#19 Mar 30 2009 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Well you are basing your claim on a scientific study and validating the study with a scientific perspective. It must be circular logic.
What I'm not doing is defending my claim based on some ludicrous premise of "Mankind doesn't know everything in the universe and therefore my asinine ideas must have validation!"
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#20 Mar 30 2009 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Well you are basing your claim on a scientific study and validating the study with a scientific perspective. It must be circular logic.
What I'm not doing is defending my claim based on some ludicrous premise of "Mankind doesn't know everything in the universe and therefore my asinine ideas must have validation!"


Ummm. I wasn't defending anything as it happens. Just making conversation....
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#21 Mar 31 2009 at 4:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Science? Here's some science.

The Earth's climate has been fluctuating for billions of years before Humans even existed.

If our entire species died today, the climate would continue to fluctuate.

For the vast majority of that time the Polar Ice caps didn't exist.

Compared to most of the Earth's history, it's pretty @#%^ing cold right now.



No real point to this other than I'm just sick of the DoomsDay crowd screaming "CRISIS! Save Mother Earth!". Fact is, we can kill ourselves, but the planet will be fine.



Edited, Mar 31st 2009 8:35am by CoalHeart
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#22 Mar 31 2009 at 5:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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CoalHeart wrote:
Fact is, we can kill ourselves, but the planet will be fine.
Not to keep anyone from taking the long view, but I'm really more concerned about the "killing ourselves" part than simply whether or not this ball o' minerals continues spinning.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#23 Mar 31 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
Elinda wrote:


I don't believe it.


And neither should you!

Because after all, in this day and age, we can rest assured that 'scientists' have explained all there is to know about life, the universe and everything, leaving us with no doubt whatsoever that we have reached the pinnacale of all knowledge.
Haha, scientists have explained, and can even trace groundwater pretty well - it doesn't take a dowser to find it.
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#24 Mar 31 2009 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
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CoalHeart wrote:
Science? Here's some science.

The Earth's climate has been fluctuating for billions of years before Humans even existed.

If our entire species died today, the climate would continue to fluctuate.

For the vast majority of that time the Polar Ice caps didn't exist.

Compared to most of the Earth's history, it's pretty @#%^ing cold right now.



No real point to this other than I'm just sick of the DoomsDay crowd screaming "CRISIS! Save Mother Earth!". Fact is, we can kill ourselves, but the planet will be fine.

And what good is a floating rock sphere if peeps are all dead and gone. We just need to keep the planet habitable until we can get our human seed properly sowed throughout space...and beyond!
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Alma wrote:
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#25 Mar 31 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Not to keep anyone from taking the long view, but I'm really more concerned about the "killing ourselves" part than simply whether or not this ball o' minerals continues spinning.



Elinda wrote:
And what good is a floating rock sphere if peeps are all dead and gone. We just need to keep the planet habitable until we can get our human seed properly sowed throughout space...and beyond!




A-Ha! I knew it! They called me crazy. They called me a conspiracy theory nut, but I knew it! You two are part of a secret society that travels the universe and plants the corrupt, evil, demon seed of Humanity on other planets.


Destroyer of Worlds, you shall be vanquished!
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#26 Mar 31 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, but in the mean time the point is valid.

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