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#1 Mar 20 2009 at 3:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm starting to miss Paulsol.

First pice of news, Israel soliders admit they were told by their superiors to shoot at unarmed Palestinian civilians during the Gaza war.

Quote:
Army veterans reveal how they gunned down innocent Palestinian families and destroyed homes and farms. Israel was last night confronting a major challenge over the conduct of its 22-day military offensive in Gaza after testimonies by its own soldiers revealed that troops were allowed and, in some cases, even ordered to shoot unarmed Palestinian civilians.

The testimonies – the first of their kind to emerge from inside the military – are at marked variance with official claims that the military made strenuous efforts to avoid civilian casualties and tend to corroborate Palestinian accusations that troops used indiscriminate and disproportionate firepower in civilian areas during the operation. In one of the testimonies shedding harsh new light on what the soldiers say were the permissive rules of engagement for Operation Cast Lead, one soldier describes how an officer ordered the shooting of an elderly woman 100 metres from a house commandeered by troops.

Another soldier, describing how a mother and her children were shot dead by a sniper after they turned the wrong way out of a house, says the "atmosphere" among troops was that the lives of Palestinians were "very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers".

A squad leader said: "At the beginning the directive was to enter a house with an armoured vehicle, to break the door down, to start shooting inside and – I call it murder – to shoot at everyone we identify. In the beginning I asked myself how could this make sense? Higher-ups said it is permissible because everyone left in the city [Gaza City] is culpable because they didn't run away."

The accounts, which also describe apparently indiscriminate destruction of property, were given at a post-operation discussion by graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military course at the Oranim Academic College in northern Israel.


Nothing very surprising, but it kinda reinforces the argument that this war was completely disproportional, and that the high civilian death toll was not a coincidence.

On the plus side, at least they're having a bit of introspection on the subject, which is commendable. Of course, they will do the exact same thing next conflict, but still, it's a start.

The second story is much worse. Lieberman is set to become Israel next Foreign Minister:

Quote:
Lieberman, head of the Israel Our Home party, signed a preliminary agreement with the Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu, who is expected to become prime minister within days. Under the deal, agreed late on Sunday night, Lieberman would be both foreign minister and a deputy prime minister, giving him an important influence in shaping the new government's policies.

His party would also have four other ministers in the cabinet, including national security minister, as well as the post of deputy foreign minister.

Netanyahu still has to sign agreements with the other smaller parties that would make up his government, but it appears increasingly likely he will lead a narrow rightwing coalition that could take power later this month

Lieberman, 50, a Russian-speaking immigrant born in Moldova, resigned from the government in January last year in protest at the restarting of peace talks with the Palestinians, saying: "Negotiations on the basis of land for peace are a critical mistake ... and will destroy us."

He is an unashamed hardliner who campaigned on the promise of a new law aimed at the country's Arab minority which would require Israelis to swear an oath of loyalty to Israel as a Jewish state or lose their citizenship.

He also advocates carving out part of the Galilee that is home to Arab Israeli villages and handing it over to Palestinian control, stripping the residents of their Israeli citizenship. Those policies proved popular enough for him to come third at the polls, but the oath of loyalty is thought unlikely to come into law.


Fucked-up. Good luck to Obama and Hillary in dealing with this piece of shit. I don't mean to be unduly pessimistic, but I think the peace process is terminally fucked while this guy remains in power.
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#2 Mar 20 2009 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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Thankfully, Israel's Lords & Masters behind the invasion will undertake an impartial inquiry into their own decisions and their implementation, so that's all groovy Smiley: dubious
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#3 Mar 20 2009 at 3:19 AM Rating: Good
Nobby wrote:
Thankfully, Israel's Lords & Masters behind the invasion will undertake an impartial inquiry into their own decisions and their implementation, so that's all groovy Smiley: dubious


Yes, lords knows we wouldn't want them to repeat the mistakes of the 1st Lebanese2nd Lebanese Gaza war.
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#4 Mar 20 2009 at 3:41 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I'll concede that one.

I still think Hamas are a bunch of jerks though.
#5 Mar 20 2009 at 3:45 AM Rating: Excellent
zepoodle wrote:
Well, I'll concede that one.

I still think Hamas are a bunch of jerks though.


Me too, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
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#6 Mar 20 2009 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm starting to miss Paulsol.


I'm still here Smiley: smile

I think I commented in the elction thread a while ago that I thought that if/when Netanyahu 'won' then it would become crystal clear to the rest of the world the true intentions that Israel had towards the Palestinians.

With the appointment of Liebermann, its going to be pretty hard for Israels intentions to be spun. He's a PoS for sure.

And its also going to be somewhat difficult for the old 'but hamas wont recognise Israels right to exist' argument to be used any more when it will become fully obvious (finally) that under the direction of Lieberman and Netanyahu, Israel has no intention of recognising the Palestinians right to any sort of statehood not completely subserviant to Israel.

A sad day for the Palestinians in the short to medium term for sure.

But maybe, just maybe, the soon to be, blatant aggression will become obvious enough for some of the supporters of Israel to take a step back and and take a hard look at their unquestioning support of country whose policies are relentlessly leading to yet more death and suffering on both sides.

Something needed to change. Maybe this will be a turning point.
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#7 Mar 20 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Paul/Red

You're missing 2 vital points.

1. Anyone who criticises any aspect of Israeli policiy or aggression is automatically a rabid **** anti-semite.
2. Anyone who expresses any empathy for Palestinian civilians and their suffering is a de-facto apologist for the Hamas terrorists.

Why are you both jew-hating terrorist-lovers?
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#8 Mar 20 2009 at 5:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nobby wrote:
1. Anyone who criticises any aspect of Israeli policiy or aggression is automatically a rabid **** anti-semite.
You know who else criticized Israeli policy and aggression? Hitler.

Shameful actions by the IDF. I still support the idea of the military action but, depending on how systemic the described actions were, it's a definate ceeding of any moral high ground.
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#9 Mar 20 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
FUNNY LETTERS? HE'S A TERRORIST, SHOOT HIM!

Quote:
You know who else criticized Israeli policy and aggression? Hitler.


Fun way to derail any argument:

I see you're breathing right now. You know who else breathed air? HITLER.
#10 Mar 20 2009 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Nobby wrote:
1. Anyone who criticises any aspect of Israeli policiy or aggression is automatically a rabid **** anti-semite.
You know who else criticized Israeli policy and aggression? Hitler.


This, coming from the head of the Banana & Waffle Republic?

As for the OP, its all just a tragic mess and people will never let go of their hate for long enough to make peace. The only way to resolve the situation would be to kill every person who thought they felt like persisting the fued. Unfortunately for the region this would mean just about everyone Smiley: frown
#11 Mar 20 2009 at 5:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Nobby wrote:
1. Anyone who criticises any aspect of Israeli policiy or aggression is automatically a rabid **** anti-semite.
You know who else criticized Israeli policy and aggression? Hitler.


This, coming from the head of the Banana & Waffle Republic?

As for the OP, its all just a tragic mess and people will never let go of their hate for long enough to make peace. The only way to resolve the situation would be to kill every person who thought they felt like persisting the fued. Unfortunately for the region this would mean just about everyone Smiley: frown
It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Or I guess, the Hghghhghhgatfields and McCoysteins.
#12 Mar 20 2009 at 6:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Army veterans reveal how they gunned down innocent Palestinian families and destroyed homes and farms.
*cry*
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#13 Mar 20 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm finding it harder and harder to make arguments in defence of Israel when they insist on being such ********.
#14 Mar 20 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Nobby wrote:
Why are you both jew-hating terrorist-lovers?


For the falafels, mostly.
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#15 Mar 20 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
I question the accuracy of the topic.
#16 Mar 20 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Nobby wrote:
Why are you both jew-hating terrorist-lovers?


For the falafels, mostly.
Falafel this weekend. You, me, and several barely of-age girls to be named later. Keen?
#17 Mar 20 2009 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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I've never had falafel. Actually, there's a staggering list of things I've never had. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:24pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#18 Mar 20 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've never had falafel. Actually, there's a staggering list of things I've never had. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:24pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Good food would be wasted on you.
#19 Mar 20 2009 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Mindel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've never had falafel. Actually, there's a staggering list of things I've never had. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:24pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Good food would be wasted on you.
Why you hatin' Smiley: cry Ugh, don't ever let my type that again.

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:27pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#20 Mar 20 2009 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Mindel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've never had falafel. Actually, there's a staggering list of things I've never had. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:24pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Good food would be wasted on you.
Why you hatin' Smiley: cry Ugh, don't ever let my type that again.

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:27pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Because you're a repugnant, mealy-brained know-nothing and I'd hate to see anything worthwhile taken up by you when there are fungi and bacteria that can make much better use of that vital sustenance.

Now, can we please get back to Red and I deflowering the 2009 graduating class with a 55-gallon drum of tzatziki sauce?
#21 Mar 20 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Mindel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Mindel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've never had falafel. Actually, there's a staggering list of things I've never had. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:24pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Good food would be wasted on you.
Why you hatin' Smiley: cry Ugh, don't ever let my type that again.

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:27pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Because you're a repugnant, mealy-brained know-nothing and I'd hate to see anything worthwhile taken up by you when there are fungi and bacteria that can make much better use of that vital sustenance.

Now, can we please get back to Red and I deflowering the 2009 graduating class with a 55-gallon drum of tzatziki sauce?
Is it because I quit playing WoW? It's because I quit playing WoW, isn't it?
#22 Mar 20 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Mindel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Mindel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I've never had falafel. Actually, there's a staggering list of things I've never had. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:24pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Good food would be wasted on you.
Why you hatin' Smiley: cry Ugh, don't ever let my type that again.

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 2:27pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
Because you're a repugnant, mealy-brained know-nothing and I'd hate to see anything worthwhile taken up by you when there are fungi and bacteria that can make much better use of that vital sustenance.

Now, can we please get back to Red and I deflowering the 2009 graduating class with a 55-gallon drum of tzatziki sauce?
Is it because I quit playing WoW? It's because I quit playing WoW, isn't it?
I really don't see what this has to do with my waking up behind a safeway in West Virgnia trying to pick bits of cucumber out of my pubic hair.
#23 Mar 20 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Now, can we please get back to Red and I deflowering the 2009 graduating class with a 55-gallon drum of tzatziki sauce?
...
I really don't see what this has to do with my waking up behind a safeway in West Virgnia trying to pick bits of cucumber out of my pubic hair.


You're the Gyro girl?

Gah, now I'm hungry.

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 4:14pm by Timelordwho
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#24 Mar 20 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
Mindel wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Nobby wrote:
Why are you both jew-hating terrorist-lovers?


For the falafels, mostly.
Falafel this weekend. You, me, and several barely of-age girls to be named later. Keen?


I am so fucking in.

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#25 Mar 20 2009 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Mindel wrote:
Now, can we please get back to Red and I deflowering the 2009 graduating class with a 55-gallon drum of tzatziki sauce?


You think there's still a graduating class anywhere with a single attractive female virgin in it?
#26 Mar 21 2009 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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"Israel soliders admit they were told by their superiors to shoot at unarmed Palestinian civilians during the Gaza war."

Meh. Isolated instances. Either that or those innocent civilians have taken to plowing the soil with RPGs and driving their produce to market with rocket launchers and fooled the Israelis into thinking they were armed combatants, thus tricking them into shooting them.

As I have stated before, the onus is on Palestine to end the violence.

Totem
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