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Gbaji, other engineers, car people, your opinions please...Follow

#1 Mar 08 2009 at 4:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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This article from gizmag has a lot of tech speak if you want to read it. Gbaji, you're an engineer right?

Koenigsegg Quant
Screenshot

This car is totally, including the windows, covered with a thin photovoltaic film. It's a solar car. It's fully electric, with a range of 500km (310 miles), ridiculous sports-car acceleration and top speed, and its "battery" charges in 20 minutes. It's a normal sized four seater sedan, with a generous boot. As far as I can see it's perfect. I'm presuming the downside is the price.

But all the specs don't mean much to me, so if any engineers want to weigh in with an opinion, I'd love to hear them.

gizmag wrote:
Producing 512hp with maximum torque of 715Nm, the Quant runs 0–100 km/h in 5.2 seconds and hits a top speed of 275 km/h. The all-electric car is powered through a combination of what it has dubbed a Flow Accumulator Energy Storage (FAES), which charges to full capacity in 20 minutes, and solar energy supplied via a thin layer photovoltaic coating over the car. The combined solar/FAES offer a claimed range in excess of 500km.

The thin layer solar technology and the proprietary FAES system enable the design of a fully electrical vehicle, rather than relying on more commonplace hybrid solutions. This also simplifies the drive train layout and packaging, as only one propulsion system is needed.

Koenigsegg says that the Quant will be able to cover long distances without a charge due to a combination of a low frontal surface area of around 2 m2, a drag coefficient of around CD 0.27 and the efficiency of the FAES and solar systems.

The ingenious design provides a unique blend of supercar looks and the space of a traditional luxury sedan. The car will carry four large adults in comfort and also feature a spacious boot at the rear.

The gull-wing doors on the Quant allow for an easy and more ergonomic access to both the front and rear passenger seats than in conventional cars. The unique split side-lite feature allows passenger to open and close the front and rear side windows separately.

The NLV Quant is a rear-wheel drive, with four-wheel regenerative braking (no details yet on how the front captures energy), ABS and ESP. It is powered by two AC induction electric motors with variable frequency drive and in-line planetary step down drive, one for each rear wheel. The twin-motor design eliminates the need for bevel gears or a differential, simplifying the lay-out and giving constant and controlled power proportioning to the rear wheels, in both drive and coast mode.

A projected curb weight of 1780 kg is achieved by a combination of the two-motor installation which weighs in at 140 kg and a carbon-fiber monotube backbone chassis, construction, which houses the FAES system. The FAES weighs around 450 kg and Koenigsegg advises that it contains no hazardous material or heavy metals.
* Power: 512 bhp
* Torque: 715 nm
* 0–100 km/h: 5.2 seconds
* Top speed: 275 km/h
* Curb weight: 1780 kg
* Wheelbase 3102 mm
* Track – Front: 1730 mm Rear: 1729 mm
* Wheels/Tires – Front: 245/35 - 22” , Rear: 265/35 - 22” - low friction tires by Michelin
* Width: 2016 mm incl rear-view mirrors, Length: 4879 mm, Height: 1335 mm
* Rear-wheel drive
* Four-wheel brake regeneration
* Minimum 6 smart airbags, ABS and ESP
* 3 infotainment panels(one in front, two for the rear)
* Adjustable rear seats
* 3 zone Climate Control system
* Large leg room in the rear
* LED front and rear lights
* Body covered in NLV photovoltaic thin flm solar coating
* NLV mobile redox Flow Accumulator Energy Storage system - FAES
* Space for 4 full grown individuals
* Price: TBD
The ATM Paddelshift system features a new gearbox design, which has been developed for the CCX. The gearbox is engineered to take up to 1100 nm of torque and due to its transversal layout, it is about 30 cm shorter then the manual transaxle gearbox it replaces, which improves weight distribution, says Koenigsegg. They go on to say that the gearbox features a synchronization system that allows shift times of 30 milliseconds - a great improvement, compared to existing synchromesh system. Basically it is as fast as a dual clutch transmission, but reduced in size and weight – two important factors in a Supercar, says Koenigsegg.

The gearbox also includes an electronic differential control. Koenigsegg says that the E-diff, makes the car easier to drive on the limit of performance, and thereby enhances the experience to most drivers. The gearbox is controlled with ergonomic paddles mounted on the steering wheel. Koenigsegg believes this to be the most optimal solution, as the paddles follow the steering wheel movements at all times.


Edited, Mar 8th 2009 8:27am by Aripyanfar
#2 Mar 08 2009 at 4:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder how this photovoltaic film holds up to weather and wear?

Would the car stop recharging itself after a year or two? Would ice, salt, water, sand, corrode and wear the film?

It'd be nice to have. Work and home are only a 15 mile round trip for me, and the grocery store is right next to my work so I don't have to make a special trip. Right now I only have to fill up on gas (10 gallon tank) every 1.5-2 weeks.

But I cannot see it working correctly for very long in the Michigan weather and road conditions. And I don't have a garage.
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#3 Mar 08 2009 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
I wonder how this photovoltaic film holds up to weather and wear?

Would the car stop recharging itself after a year or two? Would ice, salt, water, sand, corrode and wear the film?

It'd be nice to have. Work and home are only a 15 mile round trip for me, and the grocery store is right next to my work so I don't have to make a special trip. Right now I only have to fill up on gas (10 gallon tank) every 1.5-2 weeks.

But I cannot see it working correctly for very long in the Michigan weather and road conditions. And I don't have a garage.

Another important question for the engineers. Hang on, I'll try find a link for the photovoltaic film itself.

So far only more on the batteries:
Quote:


Pyradian

The Quant has a unique propulsion system which makes optimum use of NLV Solar's groundbreaking, proprietary technology in the fields of photovoltaics and accumulators. The high-efficiency Pyradian solar cell is applied as an invisible thin-film coating to the entire body of the vehicle, including the glazing.

Flow accumulator energy storage

FAES is an electrochemical energy storage system.
The gravimetric energy density is over 170 Wh/kg, the volumetric energy density at least 600 Wh/kg.
 A particular feature is the voltage per individual cell of 4 V; the cells are connected in series. The FAES technology allows high-voltage charging to full capacity in 15–20 minutes and gives the vehicle a range of 500 km. The additional power input from the invisible, thin-film photovoltaic coating that covers the body of the car further increases the range potential. The FAES has no memory effect.


Nope, I'm failing at finding a good source on the solar material. All I can find is that it's made of Pyrite (Fools Gold, haha) and has an energy conversion efficiency of 50% Nothing about it's durability.

Edited, Mar 8th 2009 9:16am by Aripyanfar
#4 Mar 08 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Huh. I thought of this awhile ago. "What if you make the roof a solar panel?"

Of course, I did also think of making the road a solar panel...
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#5 Mar 08 2009 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
Man, that wouldn't work out. Have you seen what the kids do to cat's eyes? Just imagine what they'd do to a solar panel. I guess if you put it beneath transparent concrete it'd be OK.
#6 Mar 08 2009 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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You'd have to get the surface replaced pretty regularly, depending on your local weather conditions. It could be prohibitively expensive to own and maintain, especially since it's supposed to be new technology.

"Thin photovoltaic film" doesn't sound like it'll hold up against some nasty winds.
#7 Mar 08 2009 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji, you're an engineer right?


HAhahahahaha. Fuck no, he's not an engineer. Funny thought, though.
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#8 Mar 08 2009 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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ridiculous sports-car acceleration and top speed


Both of these are in the Civic-SI range, which while a nice car and really more than anyone needs are hardly "ridiculous". The reality is this car is a tech showcase with a massive battery, which is the reason for the range. The solar stuff if essentially decorative. When they make this car and it costs $30,000 let me know.

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#9 Mar 08 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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Concept cars are advertisements with no intention of ever being produced. Production-intent vehicles are the prototypes of what you see actually hit the market. If you're reading this articles and pondering how it could in anyway change the automotive market then that's a false hope. An innovative business model, rather than technology, is what will drastically change the market.

Edited, Mar 8th 2009 11:51am by Allegory
#10 Mar 08 2009 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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It confuses me that people are focusing on the durability of the solar material to withstand the weather in their parts of the world. Aren't solar panels on roofs rather exposed to the weather?

Yeah, I'm well familiar with the idea of a "concept car" and recognised this as either a concept car or a prototype so far off production yet, and probably so far out of most people's price range, that it is highly unlikely I'll ever see one in Australia. The price: "Yet to be determined" was rather a clue. Hell the company calls it a "Super car" in the article.

Edited, Mar 8th 2009 1:06pm by Aripyanfar
#11 Mar 08 2009 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
Yes but they're not milimeter thick laminates.

Other questions arise: Could you wash it? wax it? What happens if someone keys your car?
#12 Mar 08 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
But all the specs don't mean much to me, so if any engineers want to weigh in with an opinion, I'd love to hear them.

I think asking the opinion of anyone that's not an expert in the field of solar cells, automobiles, or batteries is unlikely to produce anything but wild conjecture, "engineer" or not.

#13 Mar 08 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I think asking the opinion of anyone that's not an expert in the field of solar cells, automobiles, or batteries is unlikely to produce anything but wild conjecture, "engineer" or not.


I have a degree in homeopathic medicine!
#14 Mar 08 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
It confuses me that people are focusing on the durability of the solar material to withstand the weather in their parts of the world. Aren't solar panels on roofs rather exposed to the weather?
Weather, yeah. Road salt, not so much. Most cars in northern climes spend much of the winter with a protective opaque covering of CaCl2.
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#15 Mar 08 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
It confuses me that people are focusing on the durability of the solar material to withstand the weather in their parts of the world. Aren't solar panels on roofs rather exposed to the weather?
Weather, yeah. Road salt, not so much. Most cars in northern climes spend much of the winter with a protective opaque covering of CaCl2.


Also, of course, there's the constant scouring by high-speed winds and the various particulate matter therein that the skin of a car is subjected to.
#16 Mar 08 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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On topic, where are my 'full meal' pills and my hover-car?

Another example of the economically unviable extent of the 'possible'
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#17 Mar 08 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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I'm an Engineer by degree and job title (don't have my professional license though, never took the test).

But I don't know very much about electric vehicles or solar energy. I'm a Controls Engineer.
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#18 Mar 09 2009 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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The photo voltaic coating is a pretty cool idea. Solar chips are now being made at the nano-scale and able to capture light 3-dimensionally. I think the main source of power for this car is electric though.
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#19 Mar 09 2009 at 5:34 AM Rating: Decent
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The photo voltaic coating is a pretty cool idea.


For my roof. On a car it's just pointless decoration. Like a limo with a swimming pool

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#20 Mar 09 2009 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless the solar film can power the car significantly (it can't, we're nowhere near that point), it's nothing but a novelty. Better off putting solar panels on your roof and plugging the car in when you're home.
#21 Mar 09 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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There are so many better places to put photovoltaic cells than atop a car it's not even funny.
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#22 Mar 09 2009 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a neat design, but as Smash pointed out, it's basically a "what's the best we can do with existing technology" with a bit of "what other stuff can we toss in that'll make people think it's more impressive than it is". There's no information on sustainability or cost here. How often will the battery system need to be replaced and how much will it cost? How much power do those solar cells add, or are they just window dressing (literally)? And for the record, I'd assume that they'd cover the cells with some kind of clear epoxy, or at least a good coat of wax... ;)

Anyone can make a battery powered vehicle that appears to exceed what we see in production. Heck. Folks in robotics do it all the time. But then they have to fully replace their power system after a dozen or so uses.

The point of this is to show how the tech *could* be used, someday, not how it can be used today. There have been notable advances in both battery and solar cell technology over the last decade, so it's not a bad idea to showcase that. Um... We're not even close to there yet though.


I am a bit curious why they spent so much time talking about the gearbox though. This thing has a manual transmission? Why? One of the key strengths of fully electric cars is that electric motors don't need transmissions (or at least not one that you'd ever call a "gearbox"). Using mechanical gears to change the rotational energy from a fully electric motor is kinda silly really. I can only assume that they added on in to make the car appear more "sporty". In reality you'd always want a computer control mechanism to adjust the motor output electronically. Transformers work better than transmissions. A *lot* better...



Oh. And just because I don't build bridges doesn't mean I'm *not* an engineer. It's in my title, and I'm paid on the same scale. I'm not a member of any specific engineering organization though, but that's not a requirement anymore than being a genius hinges on whether you have a membership in Mensa.

Edited, Mar 9th 2009 2:10pm by gbaji
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#23 Mar 09 2009 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Oh. And just because I don't build bridges doesn't mean I'm *not* an engineer.
He drives trains.
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#24 Mar 09 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
Something actually cool: electrical power from the kinetic energy of raindrops.

Still far off from being made commercially viable, but it's much better than this car.
#25 Mar 09 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Still far off from being made commercially viable, but it's much better than this car.


Isn't that just really bad solar power?
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#26 Mar 09 2009 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Something actually cool: electrical power from the kinetic energy of raindrops.

Still far off from being made commercially viable, but it's much better than this car.
Especially if you only drive around Seattle.
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