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#1 Mar 06 2009 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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Facebook for school.

Well not really.

I wouldn't want them scanning my face. Seems a bit extreme or invasive. Both more likely.

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#2 Mar 06 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't understand why the administrative staff believes a simple user name and password combination wouldn't suffice.
Horsemouth wrote:
Seems a bit extreme or invasive. Both more likely.

It only seems that way. In practice it is not more invasive than the majority of other identification tools.

Edited, Mar 6th 2009 11:39pm by Allegory
#3 Mar 06 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
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I'm more shocked this is just starting.
#4 Mar 06 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
I don't understand why the administrative staff believes a simple user name and password combination wouldn't suffice.
Because anyone can have their friend sign in for them with a username/password. This way requires you to actually be at school to sign in.
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#5 Mar 06 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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They were previously using a guestbook, so it'd be a lateral shift in security.
#6 Mar 06 2009 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
They were previously using a guestbook, so it'd be a lateral shift in security.
I'd assume they wanted to climb up the security chain, not find a more expensive way to be just as secure as they were yesterday.

Edited, Mar 7th 2009 1:35am by Jophiel
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#7 Mar 06 2009 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason for switching to an automated system was to lower costs, and I'm certain a camera and additional software costs slightly more than a simple login system. It's more secure, but I don't really see their usage of it as especially requiring security. It's not a significant difference between the two either way, but usually in that situation people tend toward the side of simplicity. I don't believe the staff made a bad decision but an unusual one.
#8 Mar 07 2009 at 3:47 AM Rating: Good
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I guess no one bothered to tell them that it's actually not that hard to beat face recognition software.
#9 Mar 07 2009 at 5:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know, when I was in school, teachers had enough time to do roll call in the morning. I think they're just lazy now. The idea that this will somehow give the teachers more time to teach is laughable. It'll save 3 minutes. If that's the difference between getting an education and not, there's something more amiss.
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#10 Mar 07 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
The reason for switching to an automated system was to lower costs
Close but no cigar...
Article wrote:
Principal Richard Barker said: "With this new registration technology, we are hoping to free up our teachers' time and allow them to spend it on what they are meant to be doing, which is teaching.
[...]
Hugh Carr-Archer, chief executive of Aurora, the company behind the system, said Face Register is aimed at reducing administrative duties and easing the burden on teaching staff.
Of course, for all we know, Aurora gave it to them on the cheap as a promotional thing or something.
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#11 Mar 07 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Once I realized what the op was talking about, I thought of this book.

Little Brother, by Cory Doctorow.

While the Principle may claim that it's to give teachers more time to teach, I can't get rid of the feeling that Aurora and the School just haven't thought of how such programs can be used to control students freedom.

The book is a must read and can be downloaded for free. If you find the thought of how close The Patriot Act could have lead to just a reality. That if we had stayed on course by letting our fear of terrorist hold us hostage and elected another Neo-Con to POTUS, buy a few copies to give as gifts.



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#12 Mar 07 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm missing what's so fearful about this technology being used where it is. I'm sure there's scary slippery slope arguments to be made about techonology tracking us and all but this particular application isn't it.
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#13 Mar 07 2009 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm missing what's so fearful about this technology being used where it is. I'm sure there's scary slippery slope arguments to be made about techonology tracking us and all but this particular application isn't it.


It seems that the Dale Gribble personality is a lot more prevalent than you'd think.
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#14 Mar 07 2009 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Allegory wrote:
The reason for switching to an automated system was to lower costs
Close but no cigar...
Article wrote:
Principal Richard Barker said: "With this new registration technology, we are hoping to free up our teachers' time and allow them to spend it on what they are meant to be doing, which is teaching.
[...]
Hugh Carr-Archer, chief executive of Aurora, the company behind the system, said Face Register is aimed at reducing administrative duties and easing the burden on teaching staff.
Of course, for all we know, Aurora gave it to them on the cheap as a promotional thing or something.

Yes, so rather than pay an employee for noting signatures they now have to pay electricity, maintenance, and discounted depreciation costs.
#15 Mar 07 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Yes, so rather than pay an employee for noting signatures they now have to pay electricity, maintenance, and discounted depreciation costs.


I doubt the electrical cost would exceed even 10 dollars a month.
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#16 Mar 07 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Yes, so rather than pay an employee for noting signatures they now have to pay electricity, maintenance, and discounted depreciation costs.
Smiley: laugh

Yeah? What's maintenance run on a face scanner these days?
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#17 Mar 07 2009 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah? What's maintenance run on a face scanner these days?

I wouldn't know, but almost certainly less than employee wages.
#18 Mar 07 2009 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
I wouldn't know, but almost certainly less than employee wages.
I very honestly doubt that. I doubt it's even close.

But until one of us actually has numbers, I suppose we won't know.
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#19 Mar 07 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a glorified web camera attached to a computer in a box running some fancy biometric matching software. I'm sure they probably gouged the school about $40k per unit, but maintenance and electrical costs are probably about the same as you would incur for having a computer in a classroom. Unless you count softeare maintenance costs on the devices themselves to keep the software up to date. That probably runs about $10,000 per year would be my guess just based on costs of similar systems, assuming a fairly widespread deployment. (6 or 7 base units, probably some sort of server software setup with a sql database attached, etc)
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#20 Mar 07 2009 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch, ****** Superhero wrote:
You know, when I was in school, teachers had enough time to do roll call in the morning. I think they're just lazy now. The idea that this will somehow give the teachers more time to teach is laughable. It'll save 3 minutes. If that's the difference between getting an education and not, there's something more amiss.


In my experience, teachers get frustrated at the fact that they don't take attendance in every class. Taking roll call in the morning doesn't mean anything to catch kids who cut every period between first and last period.
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#21 Mar 07 2009 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Baron von Annabella wrote:
Uglysasquatch, ****** Superhero wrote:
You know, when I was in school, teachers had enough time to do roll call in the morning. I think they're just lazy now. The idea that this will somehow give the teachers more time to teach is laughable. It'll save 3 minutes. If that's the difference between getting an education and not, there's something more amiss.


In my experience, teachers get frustrated at the fact that they don't take attendance in every class. Taking roll call in the morning doesn't mean anything to catch kids who cut every period between first and last period.


Our school had a 5 minute long homeroom class in which attendance was taken and then handed into or sent electronically to attendance. If we missed that class or were late to it (and your homeroom teacher took attendance early and wouldn't change it..) then you had to go to attendance and get a late slip thingy. 3 lates per quarter, next one gets you detention and you get another for every late after that per quarter.

Teachers also took attendance near the beginning of each class for every period they taught. The lists get sent down to attendance at the end of school and if you were absent in class but were here for homeroom you get a cutslip. Some teachers were nice and didn't take attendance during class, or marked you down anyway if they liked you.

It was a pretty decent system. I can't imagine anything else.
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