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The Internet: 1 Cat Abuser: 0Follow

#102 Feb 17 2009 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Pensive wrote:
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We have, however, recognized that just being a person gives you individual value and inherent rights, that you are not to be bought, sold, given or traded. We have outlawed ownership of human beings.


lol "inherent rights" We didn't -recognize- that humans have inherent rights. We invented them.

Just because we have not emancipated pets to a greater extent does not mean that we should not or can not. As for wearing or eating animals.. we shouldn't. Stop with this is/ought conflation sh*t.

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This is why I'm not having kids, though. I recognize my inherant unreality of putting my cat over potential future children, and simply decided not to have them rather than face a moral prickly pear patch.

Because I'm sorry, my cat comes first.


What would you pick if you had to decide between your cat and someone else's child? Would your answer change depending on how close you were to the child. I know how I'd react, but I'd like to see how other's would.

Edited, Feb 17th 2009 12:59pm by Pensive


If I was starving to death, Id eat your cat without a second thought. Also, meat is delicious and humans are omnivores. That settles whether or not we should eat animals.

Edited, Feb 17th 2009 3:09pm by Paskil
#103 Feb 17 2009 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Pensive wrote:
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Seriously? How many children do you know that can fend for themselves? Now how many animals can?


If you put a 1 year old baby against my cat in a survival challenge, I'd bet on the baby every time.


You'd lose. I doubt the baby would even be capable of finding proper shelter the first night.
#104 Feb 17 2009 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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If I was starving to death, Id eat your cat without a second thought. Also, meat is delicious and humans are omnivores. That settles whether or not we should eat animals.


Interesting chain of logic.

1) I want to eat meat.
2 It is OK for me to eat meat.

1) I want A.
2) It is OK for me to get A.

1) I want to kill everyone who's ever used Digg and one clown.
2) It is OK for me to kill everyone who's ever used Digg and one clown.

1) I want to annoy you.
2) It is OK for me to annoy you.
#105 Feb 17 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
MentalFrog wrote:
Pensive wrote:
Quote:
Seriously? How many children do you know that can fend for themselves? Now how many animals can?


If you put a 1 year old baby against my cat in a survival challenge, I'd bet on the baby every time.


You'd lose. I doubt the baby would even be capable of finding proper shelter the first night.


I just realized that I misread Pensive's post. I thought he was pitting a baby against a cat.

Now that would be interesting to see... And I bet the cat would win.
#106 Feb 17 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
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You'd lose. I doubt the baby would even be capable of finding proper shelter the first night.


Since neither of you know my cat, I'm going to refrain from insulting your respective intelligences. I am confident however, that a squirrel could kill her, easily. lol at finding shelter the first night, she wouldn't even make it that long.

I'm not claiming that the baby wouldn't die either, just that they are about as relatively helpless. You're not going to have any winners between two utterly dependent creatures.
#107 Feb 17 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I just realized that I misread Pensive's post. I thought he was pitting a baby against a cat.


If I were doing that I'd lean even more towards the baby. A two year old with opposable thumbs is already several times larger than the largest cat, and he can choke with those thumbs.
#108 Feb 17 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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If cats or dogs were the dominant species on the planet, they'd be using us as a food supply, so I think it's nice of us to even share our homes with them, let alone treat them as one of us.
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#109 Feb 17 2009 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Pensive wrote:
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You'd lose. I doubt the baby would even be capable of finding proper shelter the first night.


Since neither of you know my cat, I'm going to refrain from insulting your respective intelligences. I am confident however, that a squirrel could kill her, easily. lol at finding shelter the first night, she wouldn't even make it that long.

I'm not claiming that the baby wouldn't die either, just that they are about as relatively helpless. You're not going to have any winners between two utterly dependent creatures.


Your cat is as retarded as you are.
#110 Feb 17 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
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If I was starving to death, Id eat your cat without a second thought. Also, meat is delicious and humans are omnivores. That settles whether or not we should eat animals.


Interesting chain of logic.

1) I want to eat meat.
2 It is OK for me to eat meat.

1) I want A.
2) It is OK for me to get A.

1) I want to kill everyone who's ever used Digg and one clown.
2) It is OK for me to kill everyone who's ever used Digg and one clown.

1) I want to annoy you.
2) It is OK for me to annoy you.


Wow, talk about applying logic in all the wrong ways. We as human's are built to eat meat. Just because you think that taking something to an extreme is an automatic progression doesn't make it so. Some in this thread may want to kill you, they haven't. I wonder how your cat's doing on its vegetarian diet?
#111 Feb 17 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its interesting to note that a good way to absolutely guarantee 100% a rate down in forum 4 is to question the inalienable right of humans to intensively farm animals with no thought as to their welfare and to slaughter said animals for food with no thought as to the quality of food produced and its detrimental effects on the environment!

Slaughtering humans for land or resources on the other hand? No problem.

Feeding babies to pitbulls? No problem.

You are an odd lot!

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#112 Feb 17 2009 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The obvious answer is to start farming Palestinians and use their flesh to feed hungry Jews.
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#113 Feb 17 2009 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
Its interesting to note that a good way to absolutely guarantee 100% a rate down in forum 4 is to question the inalienable right of humans to intensively farm animals with no thought as to their welfare and to slaughter said animals for food with no thought as to the quality of food produced and its detrimental effects on the environment!

Slaughtering humans for land or resources on the other hand? No problem.

Feeding babies to pitbulls? No problem.

You are an odd lot!



People love their meat I guess. It's like trying to take away their guns.
#114 Feb 17 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, talk about applying logic in all the wrong ways. We as human's are built to eat meat. Just because you think that taking something to an extreme is an automatic progression doesn't make it so. Some in this thread may want to kill you, they haven't. I wonder how your cat's doing on its vegetarian diet?


I don't have a cat. I never argued that animals should be treated with the same respect as humans, either, as it was implied earlier. It's like no one can talk to me without making a whole boat load of assumptions about me. What is the world coming to?

The fact is that humans don't need to eat meat. It's slightly less effort to do so, but it's mainly a taste thing. If you're OK with killing for pleasure, then I'm not going to stop you, but it has nothing to do with survival for most people living in the west.

Most importantly, why do you think we should refrain from using logic in this case?

Edited, Feb 17th 2009 3:34pm by Kavekk
#115 Feb 17 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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I stopped actually reading this thread hours ago, but I'd like to add that I love my dogs. They're a part of the family. We invited them into our home, we feed and shelter them, and they love us.

I had a dream last night, coincidentally, that a tornado was heading towards my house, and the first thing my dad and I did was grab up the dogs, and then we all headed for shelter.
#116 Feb 17 2009 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Wow, talk about applying logic in all the wrong ways.


You can't apply logic in the wrong way. You either apply it or you fail to apply it.

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We as human's are built to eat meat.


This is an example of failing to apply logic. It is an informal fallacy actually. Guess which one.+

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Just because you think that taking something to an extreme is an automatic progression doesn't make it so.


Unfortunately, it does. This is applying logic in a correct and accepted way. Taking things to their extremes shows how absolutely ridiculous your own arguments are; that's the entire point.

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Some in this thread may want to kill you, they haven't.


what?

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I wonder how your cat's doing on its vegetarian diet?


Who cares? Cat's aren't moral agents. They are moral patients.
Quote:

Your cat is as retarded as you are.


Your mom is as retarded as your face is.
#117 Feb 17 2009 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Yup that's me glossing the thread to make myself look like a moron as usual.
#118 Feb 17 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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It's like no one can talk to me without making a whole boat load of assumptions about me. What is the world coming to?


It's because you're moderate about a lot of stuff. You get confused easily with the opposition, whoever it may be. Tricksy ******* you are.
#119 Feb 17 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The obvious answer is to start farming Palestinians and use their flesh to feed hungry Jews.


One of the things I really loved about Israel was how easy it was to be vegetarian there. Their 'national dish', the falafel, is vegan.
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#120 Feb 17 2009 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
The obvious answer is to start farming Palestinians and use their flesh to feed hungry Jews.
Mmm. Halal Rabbi! A refreshing alternative to Kosher Imam
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#121 Feb 17 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I stopped actually reading this thread hours ago, but I'd like to add that I love my dogs. They're a part of the family. We invited them into our home, we feed and shelter them, and they love us.

No...they really don't.

#122 Feb 17 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Obviously a non-human can't feel a human emotion. They aren't stopped from feeling something like it though.
#123 Feb 17 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive wrote:
Obviously a non-human can't feel a human emotion. They aren't stopped from feeling something like it though.
A rose by any other name....
#124 Feb 17 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive wrote:
All value that we put on humans or animals is subjective and arbitrary. My cat versus my mother is a hard choice. My cat versus some random @#%^er's child isn't. Why should I be forced to capitulate with someone else's wishes that their child should be held in higher regard when I get more enjoyment out of my animals?

It's not like I expect them to place MY cat over their OWN child's life. Fair's fair.

***

Beside's katie is emotional about this particular ethic. I've presented a consistent argument. I've hardly ever taken this tack to justify a decision; it reminds me of reading Anthem or something, and I much prefer universal compassion, but we're talking about hypothetical and necessarily difficult ethical thought experiments, where you -have- to pick something. It's very easy to simply go with the most valuable thing from your own perspective.

Seems to me that if you're okay with placing your cat's life over some random person's human child, based on your relationship to each subject, then you indeed are also being emotional about it, so I wouldn't point fingers at katie.


#125 Feb 17 2009 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Pensive wrote:
Obviously a non-human can't feel a human emotion. They aren't stopped from feeling something like it though.
A rose by any other name....

You entirely missed the point of that quote.

Shakespeare's point is that the rose is still exactly the same, just the name is different.

An animal's "something like" love isn't exactly love.

#126 Feb 17 2009 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Pensive wrote:
Obviously a non-human can't feel a human emotion. They aren't stopped from feeling something like it though.
A rose by any other name....

You entirely missed the point of that quote.

Shakespeare's point is that the rose is still exactly the same, just the name is different.

An animal's "something like" love isn't exactly love.

How do you know?
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