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#52 Feb 09 2009 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The thing you are building needs to stimulate the economy Joph. This doesn't. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not ever. We can debate the value of zero-emission coal plants compared to the increased costs (and have), but you can't argue that the technology stimulates the economy in any way at all.
You're right. Technological development has never resulted in economic growth.

My mistake.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#53 Feb 09 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The thing you are building needs to stimulate the economy Joph. This doesn't. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not ever. We can debate the value of zero-emission coal plants compared to the increased costs (and have), but you can't argue that the technology stimulates the economy in any way at all.
You're right. Technological development has never resulted in economic growth.

My mistake.


There's a whole range between "never" and "always" Joph...
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#54 Feb 09 2009 at 8:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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*Shrug*

Twelve private firms feel strongly enough that the results of FutureGen will bring them increased wealth that they've invested a combined $400 million into it and continued to invest in it and move ahead with the project even after the DOE pulled funding for it. They've also negotiated to lower the DOE's allotment of the funding and take on more burden themselves. Perhaps they're doing this just because they're really nice guys but I kind of think that the expect to see innovations coming out of FutureGen which will make them a lot of money. Of course, Gbaji says it'll never happen so maybe they should have called you first.

Nine of the twelve companies are US companies. Each has an equal share in the project meaning that the bulk of the fruits of the project will be enjoyed by American firms.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#55 Feb 09 2009 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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While that does help with the immediate problem facing those out of work, it doesn't do anything to "stimulate" the economy.


When people have a job, they spend more money. When people decide to spend more money, that money goes to the business they spent the money at. The business then turns around and spends it to expand, make new buildings(creating jobs) hire new employees, and advertise to increase demand. This is an outward spiral.

Creating jobs creats cash flow. Unemployed people save money, slowing the cashflow, until they can get a job.
#56 Feb 15 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
my big gripe is that nothing in the stimulus really is designed to stimulate the economy. A lot of it is just short-term spending on federal wants which wont be sustainable in the long run or produce real growth: when the money is spent, there will be no net job creation.

I'm not a fan at all of government spending, but if he wants to make a stimulus package, cant it at least work? At least invest in education, technology, and real job creation instead of this. The social security crisis isn't going away now that bush is out of office, and right now all we are doing is paying for pork.
#57 Feb 15 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Neispace of Doom wrote:
I'm not a fan at all of government spending, but if he wants to make a stimulus package, cant it at least work? At least invest in education, technology, and real job creation instead of this.
Ironically, others are howling that the stimulus package includes money for education & technology instead of being all bridge construction and road repair.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#58 Feb 16 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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dupeeconqr wrote:
Terrain,

Free markets aren't what's sending jobs overseas. Quite the contrary; artifically inflating the cost of goods or services based on the notion that everyone has to make a least a certain amout, living wage, are what's sending jobs overseas. Are you aware that the US govn tax structure for corporations is one of the worst in industrialized nations? I over E = P. Businesses are in business to make a profit; not to employ people. The US has no right to expect american corporations to stay based in the US if they're being taxed far more than if they were to set up shop in another country.


easy fix: Tax corporations 500% of the normal rate if they are an american-owned businesses and choose to buy a material from outside the US that is produced here.

You are right, the US has no right expect american corporations to stay inside our country. But the corporations have no right to believe they will be making money off of the US - which is the biggest consumer - from their products.
#59 Feb 16 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Ironically, others are howling that the stimulus package includes money for education & technology instead of being all bridge construction and road repair.


it depends on what education and tech is being boosted. I don't know all of the bill's targets, but the less trendy the technology or field, the better. They might be up in arms because it's too narrow a focus or not needed. I mean we having a huge nursing shortage, so that should be prioritized over something like electric cars, which may be come obsolete or not economically feasible despite the stimulus, like the Tesla.

Or engineering in general, or teaching. A danger is that the money for education gets sunk into teachers unions or other gov. employees without seeing real benefit. I mean, the NEA doesn't need additional funding. We do need more affordable voc-tech schools and alternatives to 4 year college.

Still man, we are sunk even with that. If you are 18 I'm sorry, you are gonna see a huge tax increase in later years when the bill comes due for this and social security.
#60 Feb 16 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.

#61 Feb 16 2009 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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vanelr wrote:
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.


So what you're saying is, your life has been a fraud.



Edited, Feb 16th 2009 10:22pm by trickybeck
#62 Feb 16 2009 at 9:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.


Traitor.
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#63 Feb 16 2009 at 10:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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vanelr wrote:
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.
Awesome. For years I used to defend this country. I'd roll my eyes at the people who said that if you didn't like it, just leave and said instead that if you loved this country you'd stick around and work to change it. I took my own advice, helped changed the political landscape and made pussies like you run away Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#64 Feb 17 2009 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
vanelr wrote:
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.

Racist.
#65 Feb 17 2009 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
vanelr wrote:
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.
Awesome. For years I used to defend this country. I'd roll my eyes at the people who said that if you didn't like it, just leave and said instead that if you loved this country you'd stick around and work to change it. I took my own advice, helped changed the political landscape and made pussies like you run away Smiley: laugh


I hope for your sake he's not coming over to Britain Smiley: mad
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#66 Feb 17 2009 at 5:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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vanelr wrote:
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.



Please do check in and tell us what haven of conservatism you picked as being worthy of you.

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#67 Feb 17 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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Somewhere with Sharia law I bet.
#68 Feb 17 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Somewhere with Sharia law I bet.


Not if there's Sharia Law you don't.
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#69 Feb 17 2009 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Somewhere with Sharia law I bet.


Not if there's Sharia Law you don't.
Smiley: laughTouché.
#70 Feb 17 2009 at 6:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Please do check in and tell us what haven of conservatism you picked as being worthy of you.
"Greetings from Columbia!"
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#71 Feb 17 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
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vanelr wrote:
For years I used to defend this country and told people if you did not like it, just leave. After this election. I have sold my business and my properties and have left the country. I have taken my own advice. Im out and glad to be gone.



In this economy you sold your property and business? I don't believe you.
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#72 Feb 17 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, you would have believed him otherwise? Smiley: rolleyes

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#73 Feb 17 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Oh, you would have believed him otherwise? Smiley: rolleyes



Of course...it was totally plausible up to that point.
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#74REDACTED, Posted: Feb 17 2009 at 7:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Manifest,
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