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US Foreign Policy and IsraelFollow
He gonna intervene? or. . .
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
No.
It will be business as usual in the US's unconditional support of the 'defenceless' Israelis in their battle (on behalf of all of us) against the islamic hordes of barbaric Palestinians.
They (the Palestinans in Gaza) will continue to be co-erced into bowing to US and Israeli pressure to oust Hamas, and adopt rule by Fatah (who are far more easily intimidated by the US and Israel than Hamas) so that they will be allowed to rebuild their open-air ghetto/concentration camp and continue to live under the control and whim of whoever happens to be in charge of Israel at the time.
They will continue to be walled in by the 'security fence'. They will continue to have their settlements carved up by roads that they themselves are not allowed to use. they will continue to be denied access to health care and education and employment, and they will continue to be held responsible for the actions of the radicals.
barack Obama said last week....
And...
Someone should mention to him that The PA is not the Authority in Gaza.
It will be business as usual. Sure the rhetoric may change, but the unconditional support of the US for Israel in its treatment of the Palestinians is etched in stone.
Why?
Perhaps that is the more important question........
It will be business as usual in the US's unconditional support of the 'defenceless' Israelis in their battle (on behalf of all of us) against the islamic hordes of barbaric Palestinians.
They (the Palestinans in Gaza) will continue to be co-erced into bowing to US and Israeli pressure to oust Hamas, and adopt rule by Fatah (who are far more easily intimidated by the US and Israel than Hamas) so that they will be allowed to rebuild their open-air ghetto/concentration camp and continue to live under the control and whim of whoever happens to be in charge of Israel at the time.
They will continue to be walled in by the 'security fence'. They will continue to have their settlements carved up by roads that they themselves are not allowed to use. they will continue to be denied access to health care and education and employment, and they will continue to be held responsible for the actions of the radicals.
barack Obama said last week....
Quote:
Let me be clear: America is committed to Israel's security. And we will always support Israel's right to defend itself against legitimate threats. For years, Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at innocent Israeli citizens. No democracy can tolerate such danger to its people, nor should the international community, and neither should the Palestinian people themselves, whose interests are only set back by acts of terror.
To be a genuine party to peace, the quartet has made it clear that Hamas must meet clear conditions: recognize Israel's right to exist; renounce violence; and abide by past agreements. Going forward, the outline for a durable cease-fire is clear: Hamas must end its rocket fire; Israel will complete the withdrawal of its forces from Gaza; the United States and our partners will support a credible anti-smuggling and interdiction regime, so that Hamas cannot rearm.
Yesterday I spoke to President Mubarak and expressed my appreciation for the important role that Egypt played in achieving a cease-fire. And we look forward to Egypt's continued leadership and partnership in laying a foundation for a broader peace through a commitment to end smuggling from within its borders.
To be a genuine party to peace, the quartet has made it clear that Hamas must meet clear conditions: recognize Israel's right to exist; renounce violence; and abide by past agreements. Going forward, the outline for a durable cease-fire is clear: Hamas must end its rocket fire; Israel will complete the withdrawal of its forces from Gaza; the United States and our partners will support a credible anti-smuggling and interdiction regime, so that Hamas cannot rearm.
Yesterday I spoke to President Mubarak and expressed my appreciation for the important role that Egypt played in achieving a cease-fire. And we look forward to Egypt's continued leadership and partnership in laying a foundation for a broader peace through a commitment to end smuggling from within its borders.
And...
Quote:
Now, just as the terror of rocket fire aimed at innocent Israelis is intolerable, so, too, is a future without hope for the Palestinians. I was deeply concerned by the loss of Palestinian and Israeli life in recent days and by the substantial suffering and humanitarian needs in Gaza. Our hearts go out to Palestinian civilians who are in need of immediate food, clean water, and basic medical care, and who've faced suffocating poverty for far too long.
Now we must extend a hand of opportunity to those who seek peace. As part of a lasting cease-fire, Gaza's border crossings should be open to allow the flow of aid and commerce, with an appropriate monitoring regime, with the international and Palestinian Authority participating.
Relief efforts must be able to reach innocent Palestinians who depend on them. The United States will fully support an international donor's conference to seek short-term humanitarian assistance and long-term reconstruction for the Palestinian economy. This assistance will be provided to and guided by the Palestinian Authority.
Now we must extend a hand of opportunity to those who seek peace. As part of a lasting cease-fire, Gaza's border crossings should be open to allow the flow of aid and commerce, with an appropriate monitoring regime, with the international and Palestinian Authority participating.
Relief efforts must be able to reach innocent Palestinians who depend on them. The United States will fully support an international donor's conference to seek short-term humanitarian assistance and long-term reconstruction for the Palestinian economy. This assistance will be provided to and guided by the Palestinian Authority.
Someone should mention to him that The PA is not the Authority in Gaza.
It will be business as usual. Sure the rhetoric may change, but the unconditional support of the US for Israel in its treatment of the Palestinians is etched in stone.
Why?
Perhaps that is the more important question........
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Well, please do tell us.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Hardly an unbiased source. Why don't you just come out and say what you mean?
Get it out in the open. Really, you'll feel better.
Get it out in the open. Really, you'll feel better.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
It's good that Nobby started this thread. Paulsol's righteous outrage re: Israel was spilling into the ESC thread last night in his omnipresent desire to make sure everyone knows exactly how he feels about it 
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
It's good that Nobby started this thread. Paulsol's righteous outrage re: Israel was spilling into the ESC thread last night in his omnipresent desire to make sure everyone knows exactly how he feels about it
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Quote:
I just wish Paul would get off the fence.
Wait for it, I think he figured out a solution.
I bet he'll even tell us about it.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Samira said.
My point exactly. Thankyou for noticing.
Jophiel said
I don't, unlike you and all the other folk with their 'faith', believe in omniprescence. Tho I am quite interested in sub-atomic physics and the possibilities of particles being existant in 2 places at the same time......
Nobby said..
Its not a 'fence'. Its a bloody great concrete wall. With watchtowers and machine guns.
Quote:
Hardly an unbiased source.
My point exactly. Thankyou for noticing.
Jophiel said
Quote:
omnipresent
I don't, unlike you and all the other folk with their 'faith', believe in omniprescence. Tho I am quite interested in sub-atomic physics and the possibilities of particles being existant in 2 places at the same time......
Nobby said..
Quote:
the fence.
Its not a 'fence'. Its a bloody great concrete wall. With watchtowers and machine guns.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
paulsol wrote:
I don't, unlike you and all the other folk with their 'faith', believe in omniprescence.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
So. Other than me, you all have no opinion on the question that Nobby posed?
Good effort.
Good effort.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
paulsol wrote:
Good effort.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
So. Other than me, you all have no opinion on the question that Nobby posed?
Do you really need someone to confirm your opinion? If you do then count me in. I don't think we'll see any change coming from this administration.
Quote:
Well, please do tell us
I think the question was for you and other Americans. We don't understand why your country so blindly support Israel and we would like to know.
Maybe you don't understand it either?
We don't understand why your country so blindly support Israel and we would like to know.
Jews and lunatic end times Christians vote. Really that simple. Remember that you're talking about a nation where almost half the population genuinely believes The Rapture will occur in their lifetime.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
I think the question was for you and other Americans. We don't understand why your country so blindly support Israel and we would like to know.
Maybe you don't understand it either?
Maybe you don't understand it either?
No, I believe it was rhetorical and meant to imply that there's a vast conspiracy afoot.
Look, Obama has already reached out to the Muslim elite in the ME in a way that Bush never did. I personally think that a bare week into his Administration is not really the time to declare that it's all "business as usual" and the U.S. will never attempt to call Israel to heel.
But by virtue of not living in the United States you are undoubtedly correct in your cynical and negative assessment, so grats you, I guess.
Edited, Jan 27th 2009 6:45pm by Samira
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I personally think that a bare week into his Administration is not really the time to declare that it's all "business as usual" and the U.S. will never attempt to call Israel to heel.
Never? Who knows. In the next four years? No. A brother wants to win Florida in '12.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
Jews and lunatic end times Christians vote. Really that simple. Remember that you're talking about a nation where almost half the population genuinely believes The Rapture will occur in their lifetime.
I know it would be political suicide but I was just wondering if you guys see some kind of strategical advantage to this kind of unconditional support.
No, obviously we're suicidal. Sorry we're taking the rest of you with us.
Well, kinda sorry, in an abstract way.
Well, kinda sorry, in an abstract way.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I know it would be political suicide but I was just wondering if you guys see some kind of strategical advantage to this kind of unconditional support.
Well it does give the people who own most of the world's oil something to spend money on and worry about other than gaining the most geo-political power from their control of petrol assets. Let's be honest, the reverse is the case for much of Europe. Supporting the Palestinian cause is largely a front for wanting more control over the energy resources.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
Jews and lunatic end times Christians vote. Really that simple. Remember that you're talking about a nation where almost half the population genuinely believes The Rapture will occur in their lifetime.
This.
And the lack of curiosity in the US that allows another large section of the remainder to actually believe that Palestininian=terrorist and Israel=peaceful democracy.
Edited, Jan 27th 2009 11:56pm by paulsol
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Oh, who needs curiosity?
*fluff*
*fluff*
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Oh, who needs curiosity?
*fluff*
*fluff*
It ******* kills cats. I love cats. Therefore I hate curiosity.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
paulsol wrote:
Quote:
Jews and lunatic end times Christians vote. Really that simple. Remember that you're talking about a nation where almost half the population genuinely believes The Rapture will occur in their lifetime.
This.
And the lack of curiosity in the US that allows another large section of the remainder to actually believe that Palestininian=terrorist and Israel=peaceful democracy.
Hey you were the one that asked the question, you can't be answering it yourself now.
Edited, Jan 27th 2009 6:16pm by trickybeck
Quote:
Look, Obama has already reached out to the Muslim elite in the ME in a way that Bush never did. I personally think that a bare week into his Administration is not really the time to declare that it's all "business as usual" and the U.S. will never attempt to call Israel to heel.
Fair enough. Do you see it happening in the next 4 years?
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad Obama's in charge now and you are right, he did more in a week than Bush in 8 years. I'm just not convinced that his policies regarding Israel will be really different than what we've seen for decades. Every resolution involving Israel at the security council will be vetoed. The billions in military aid will keep flowing. If you really think it will be different, I'm curious to know, why?
Unless Obama is really "The One" and doesn't care about getting re-elected...
I don't know when, I have to assume he has access to information that I, incurious American that I am, lack. I do think he should move sooner rather than later, not least so that the policy changes will fade from memory and be "business as usual" by the time the 2012 elections roll around.
Unlike a few people here, though, I don't set myself up as a prophet or arbiter of all that is righteous.
Unlike a few people here, though, I don't set myself up as a prophet or arbiter of all that is righteous.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
It looks like he's going to try to intervene, or at least give the impression that he's trying to intervene. But the political climate has to be right in Israel as well. As dependent on the US as Israel might be, it's completely unrealistic to ever expect an American President to say: "Make peace now or we cut off all ties and possibly bomb you." The best they can do is exert some pressure, and try the carrot and fur-padded stick approach.
And for that to work, the political conditions on the ground in Israel, and in the rest of the ME, have to be right too. Considering that it's 99% sure that Netanyahu will be the next PM of Israel, there is virtually 0% chance of a meaningful peace-deal happening. Mostly because Likud will never agree to any significant concessions. And then you have the whole Gaza/West Bank split which means that for a peace-deal to happen either a) Israel starts speaking to Hamas, which under Likud they will never ever do, or b) that Hamas magically disappears and gets replaced by some Western-loving atheists. And then you have the small detail that all the surrounding countries, as well as the Palestinians, are still kinda pissed off with the whole Christmas massacre thing.
So try as he might, and it won't be that hard, it's not looking very promising.
And for that to work, the political conditions on the ground in Israel, and in the rest of the ME, have to be right too. Considering that it's 99% sure that Netanyahu will be the next PM of Israel, there is virtually 0% chance of a meaningful peace-deal happening. Mostly because Likud will never agree to any significant concessions. And then you have the whole Gaza/West Bank split which means that for a peace-deal to happen either a) Israel starts speaking to Hamas, which under Likud they will never ever do, or b) that Hamas magically disappears and gets replaced by some Western-loving atheists. And then you have the small detail that all the surrounding countries, as well as the Palestinians, are still kinda pissed off with the whole Christmas massacre thing.
So try as he might, and it won't be that hard, it's not looking very promising.
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