Haha, Barack bringing it :: Free Realms

#27 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 8:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not getting it. We don't want "deals that last a long time", because that would require long term legislation and bigger government. That's what Liberals want. You're making the classic mistake of assuming that conservatives are just like liberals, but want the opposite things. That's simply not the case. If a Republican makes a deal with a Democrat such that he gets some program he wants funded "forever" and the Democrat gets some program he wants funded "forever" that's a lose-lose for conservatives.

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#28 Jan 26 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

Heck. Let's look at the other thread on this page about Embryonic Stem Cell Research. Did we go "backwards"? Remember, ESC was never funded before. Bush started federal funding of stem cell research. So it wasn't "backwards". It just wasn't as far forwards as some would like.

Prior to the very end of the Clinton administration, ESC research didn't exist as a science. The NIH created federal funding guidelines in August of 2000 which were immediately approved by Clinton. In Feb 2001, Bush froze NIH funding for ESC research and in August of 2001, opened funding for only the approved ESC lines.

So, yeah, Bush did take the nation backwards on ESC research funding. The guidelines approved by Clinton were essentially identical to the ones Congress tried to pass in '07:

CNN, way back in Aug of 2000, wrote:

Embryonic cells -- of which there are typically a surfeit after an attempt at in vitro fertilization -- must be harvested by privately funded labs and passed to the federally funded scientists, in order to avoid having government monies directly linked to the destruction of an embryo. Researchers also may only use embryos that are marked to be discarded, and embryo donors are not to be reimbursed.

HR Bill 3 wrote:

(1) The stem cells were derived from human embryos that have been donated from in vitro fertilization clinics, were created for the purposes of fertility treatment, and were in excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking such treatment.
(2) Prior to the consideration of embryo donation and through consultation with the individuals seeking fertility treatment, it was determined that the embryos would never be implanted in a woman and would otherwise be discarded.
(3) The individuals seeking fertility treatment donated the embryos with written informed consent and without receiving any financial or other inducements to make the donation.

Bush definately set it back. The legislation quoted was trying to return things to Clinton levels.

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#29 Jan 26 2009 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

That's what you don't get. We don't want *any* of that sort of government. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.

Huh.

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#30 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 9:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) DHS is funded out of the discretionary budget Joph. Meaning they have to ask for every dollar each and every year. Just like every other defense and military related project. If next year we decide we don't need the DHS anymore, it can be disbanded and defunded. Just like every other program in that classification.

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#31 Jan 26 2009 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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Oh.

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#32 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 9:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Was any federal funding spent on Embryonic Stem Cell research before Bush took office Joph. Yes or no....

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#33 Jan 26 2009 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent

Omegavegeta

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We don't want "deals that last a long time", because that would require long term legislation and bigger government. That's what Liberals want.

Really?

Dubya started No Child Left Behind, which federalized K-12 education to an unprecedented degree, with nothing to show for it other than greater spending tabs.

Or how about his Medicare prescription-drug benefit, the largest entitlement program created since LBJ?

Or the simple reality that taxpayers now guarantee some $8 trillion in inscrutable loans to a financial sector that collapsed from inscrutable loans?

During his first four years in office he & his Pubbie controlled congress added a whopping $345 billion to the federal budget. The only other presidential term that comes close?

Bush's second term. ($287 Billion as of November 08')

Then there's the Department of Homeland Security...et al.

So perhaps you should replace "we" with "I", for semantics sake. As your reasoning is certainly not indicative of most conservatives.

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#34 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 9:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Er? That's an example of a "compromise" Joph. The Democrats got medicare increased, the Republicans got to put some of the money in the hands of the pharma companies who make the medicines. But that compromise isn't a "win" for conservatives. It's a "we didn't lose as much".

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#35 Jan 26 2009 at 9:42 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

Was any federal funding spent on Embryonic Stem Cell research before Bush took office Joph.

It was allocated to be spent with the guidelines in place to spend it. It was not spent prior to 2000 because the budget for that year was already set and so it was to start being spent in 2001. Bush took it away. It's not what I would have "liked to have happened", it what was scheduled to happen until Bush killed it.

Did Bush kill the federal funding guidelines for embryonic stem cell research that were in place upon his inauguration? "Yes or no...."

I'll save you the trouble. The answer is "Yes".

Is Congress working to restore the guidelines to where they were when Clinton left office and after Bush severely cut them back? "Yes or no...."

Once again, I'll do you a favor. The answer is "Yes".

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#36 Jan 26 2009 at 9:45 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

It's a "we didn't lose as much".

Ummmm...

You do know that Bush was championing that prescription drug plan as the best thing since sliced bread and everyone should acknowledge how awesome he was for getting it done, right? Smiley: laugh

Yeah... Conservatives never want that stuff!! Never, ever, ever!

Gbaji wrote:

We don't want *any* of that sort of government. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.

Except for when we really want it. Then... ummm... it was the Democrats fault if we're called on it!

Smiley: laugh

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#37 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 10:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Holy irrelevant numbers batman!!!

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#38 Jan 26 2009 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

The core concept wasn't bad.

The core concept sucked.

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#39 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 10:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yeah. This is kind of an interesting one. Given how contentious this is, do you think Congress will pass legislation requiring ESC funding? Cause it's not so much of a wedge issue if the president is in your own party, right? Do they really care about the funding? Or is it just a nice tool to use against the Republicans? Cause if they pass it, then Obama will have to decide to sign it or veto it.

#40 gbaji, Posted: Jan 26 2009 at 10:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Every teacher I've spoken to disagrees with you Joph.

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#41 Jan 26 2009 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent

Omegavegeta

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So, you're defending Bush's increased spending & government while at the same time saying conservatives are against those things.

Gotcha.

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#42 Jan 26 2009 at 10:50 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

"Kill" guidelines? This wasn't a piece of legislation Joph. He changed them. Those things change all the time Joph. That's like saying that Bush changed the pictures hanging in the Oval office. It's within the purview of the President to make such changes.

Yes, changes away from the levels set during the Clinton administration.

Thanks for agreeing! Smiley: smile

Quote:

Yeah. This is kind of an interesting one. Given how contentious this is, do you think Congress will pass legislation requiring ESC funding? Cause it's not so much of a wedge issue if the president is in your own party, right? Do they really care about the funding? Or is it just a nice tool to use against the Republicans? Cause if they pass it, then Obama will have to decide to sign it or veto it.

It's only contentious in your own mind. Really. The original House bill had 217 cosponsors and passed 253-174. The Senate bill had 41 cosponsors and passed 63-34 including 17 Republicans. Not enough to overturn a veto but these wren't razor thin party line votes, either.

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Want to guess that this will happen right around say spring/summer of 2010?

Sure. I'll guess you're wrong.

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#43 Jan 26 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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gbaji wrote:

Every teacher I've spoken to disagrees with you Joph.

Everyone I've spoken to agrees with me. Now that we have that hard data out of the way...

Quote:

The core concept was ok

No, it really wasn't. I mean, I guess if you want to water the core concept down to "Make it better" than it was an okay idea. Raise the concept up any higher than that ("Make it better by...") and it rapidly became a clusterfuck of stupid ideas. It was never a good concept.

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Despite those problems, it has still had a higher success rate than anything Obama did for education, so perhaps we should judge it in context here?

Yeah, it's sure better than anything Obama did in the last six days. Boy, you got me there.

If that's your best defense for NCLB, you have a long road ahead of ya.

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#44 Jan 27 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1656893885643

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gbaji wrote:

That's what you don't get. We don't want *any* of that sort of government. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.

California Proposition 8 would like a word with you.

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#45 Jan 27 2009 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592267273743

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California Proposition 8 would like a word with you.

Haven't you yet been told that gays can already marry and that nothing is stopping them from having the exact same union as heterosexuals? Smiley: rolleyes

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#46 gbaji, Posted: Jan 27 2009 at 2:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you'd read my previous posts you'd know that this is incorrect.

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#47 Jan 27 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent

Nobby

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gbaji wrote:

If you'd read my previous posts you'd ~~know that this is incorrect~~ have wasted 28 years of your life.

Yup

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#48 gbaji, Posted: Jan 27 2009 at 2:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ok. We'll see...

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#49 Jan 27 2009 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent

Smasharoo

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Ok. We'll see...

You should start wagering cash. Your predictive prowess is legendary. I mean, hell you were right about the gay marriage thing in CA.

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#50 Jan 27 2009 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

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I was reading a post from 2007 earlier today while looking for something else and Gbaji scolded me for not realizing that it was 100% PURE FACT that Clinton would be the Democratic nominee for president and anyone who disagreed just DIDN'T REALIZE that she WOULD be the nominee was just BLIND to the machinery of the party that Gbaji could see SO CLEARLY!!!

Smiley: laugh

I love it when Gbaji makes political predicitions. They're not only never true but they're usually the exact opposite of what he insists will happen.

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#51 REDACTED, Posted: Jan 27 2009 at 5:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wow! Taxpayers are going to be paying billions to acorn and people to convert from analog to digital and you people think this is going to somehow stimulate the economy and create jobs.

Haha, Barack bringing itFollow