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#1 Jan 22 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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#2 Jan 22 2009 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
Sturgeon's Law.
#3 Jan 22 2009 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Sturgeon's Law.


Screenshot


It's why Peter Griffin is no longer allowed at the Zoo.
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#4 Jan 22 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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GwynapNud the Irrelevant wrote:
Good point. There's over 46,000 Catholic priests in the United States (to say nothing of nuns, deacons and other laity) so when two of them show the weakness of human nature, it should be a reflection upon every last one of them. Smiley: nod
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5 Jan 22 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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But its not just that first story is it?

It seems every few months a Roman Catholic Priest is in the press for some missgiving. Its not exactly 2 in 46,000 is it?

For me this is about the proverbial mud sticking. I still remember the shock of priests (not catholic at first) being found guilty of paedophilia. It was a shocking event and made the national press. Then another was found, and another ... then another ..
Eventually it seemed that the vicars and priests had more sordid personal affairs than the worst politician Smiley: oyvey

The Catholic church was never my favourite to begin with for various reasons. Too many stories in the press, too many personal experiences of the priests not matching the values of Christianity left me less than impressed. I'm biased, but stories like this keep reinforcing that view!

Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 7:39pm by GwynapNud
#6 Jan 22 2009 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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The number of priests in the United States accused of sexual crimes (accused, not proven) in a span of time ranging back into the 1950's is approximately 0.6%. This is roughly the same number of teaching licenses suspended from male elementary/secondary public education instructors due to sexual misconduct investigations in the last five years (0.5%).

Mind you, I'm comparing a fifty year period of a five year period.

Catholic sexual abuse cases just get more sensational news stories 'cause people eat 'em up. Much like little kidnapped blonde girls. Hell, if you followed the news stories the last few years, you'd be convinced that every female instructor was fucking her 13 year old students. I remember I once linked to four or five of them on here in a thread. I imagine the actual number of sexual misconduct cases involving female instructors is well below 0.5% but damn do they grab the healdines.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 6:45pm by Jophiel
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#7 Jan 22 2009 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#8 Jan 22 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
The number of priests in the United States accused of sexual crimes (accused, not proven) in a span of time ranging back into the 1950's is approximately 0.6%. This is roughly the same number of teaching licenses suspended from male elementary/secondary public education instructors due to sexual misconduct investigations in the last five years (0.5%).

Mind you, I'm comparing a fifty year period of a five year period.

Catholic sexual abuse cases just get more sensational news stories 'cause people eat 'em up. Much like little kidnapped blonde girls. Hell, if you followed the news stories the last few years, you'd be convinced that every female instructor was fucking her 13 year old students. I remember I once linked to four or five of them on here in a thread. I imagine the actual number of sexual misconduct cases involving female instructors is well below 0.5% but damn do they grab the healdines.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 6:45pm by Jophiel


Exactly look at the statistics, not the media crazed shock value.
#9 Jan 22 2009 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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MentalFrog wrote:
Exactly look at the statistics, not the media crazed shock value.


What's the fun in that...
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#10 Jan 22 2009 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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I'll say in Boston, it prompted the Cardinal to resign. I knew people who filed and have colleagues who just work with the "Voices of the Faithful," i.e victims of the sex scandal. The church really needed to clean house--the lack of responsibility they were taking was really disturbing and damaged and hurt people's trust immensely-- with that said, on balance, I think that the response has been adequate and eventually it should strengthen rather than weaken the church's credibility.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#11 Jan 22 2009 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not defending every response of the Church and I'm certainly not defending those priests who were guilty of the crimes (or those in the body who covered up allegations rather than investigate them). Not that I think you were implying that of me, Anna.

Gywn just seems to be using the broad brush principle of taking a group of widely publicised cases and implying that it applies to the bulk of the organization. Which it certainly doesn't.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#12 Jan 22 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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I grew up Catholic. I have no love for the Catholic church or its medieval doctrine, but despite that, I can honestly say that I have never been mistreated in anyway by any member of the clergy. The Bishop that performed our wedding was one of the finest men I've ever met. Prior to becoming a priest he was a physician. That wasn't quite enough service to humanity for him, so he joined the army and became a Green Beret as well. After he left the military, his wife died, and he then joined the priesthood. Last I heard he was a Bishop in the Chevaliers du Notre Dame. Anyway you look at it, he was a cool guy.

So, yeah, I'm sure there are bad apples in every barrel, but lets not forget that there are good ones as well.
#13 Jan 22 2009 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm not defending every response of the Church and I'm certainly not defending those priests who were guilty of the crimes (or those in the body who covered up allegations rather than investigate them). Not that I think you were implying that of me, Anna.

Gywn just seems to be using the broad brush principle of taking a group of widely publicised cases and implying that it applies to the bulk of the organization. Which it certainly doesn't.


I didn't think you were. I'm just saying that people haven't figured out what to think about the Catholic Church given this massive crisis that occurred--but the Church is far from broken. They'll be better off after they resolve this crisis of credibility. And here I mean the church in the US and Europe. I'm not sure what, if any impact, was felt in places where the church is growing, i.e. Africa, South America and Eastern Asia.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 8:08pm by Annabella
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Turin wrote:
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#14 Jan 22 2009 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm not defending every response of the Church and I'm certainly not defending those priests who were guilty of the crimes (or those in the body who covered up allegations rather than investigate them). Not that I think you were implying that of me, Anna.

Gywn just seems to be using the broad brush principle of taking a group of widely publicised cases and implying that it applies to the bulk of the organization. Which it certainly doesn't.


[/quote]I'm not doing the research, but I'd hazard a guess that priest's by occupation, have a higher rate of child sexual abuse convictions - at least in the recent past. However, if it was a bunch of, say, general physicians, that were found to have some tendency towards a deviant illegal crime, I'd not hold the whole medical profession accountable for the deeds. I'd hope the medical profession would deal with it. Has the catholic church? well, maybe they still working on it.
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#15 Jan 22 2009 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:

I'm not doing the research, but I'd hazard a guess that priest's by occupation, have a higher rate of child sexual abuse convictions - at least in the recent past. However, if it was a bunch of, say, general physicians, that were found to have some tendency towards a deviant illegal crime, I'd not hold the whole medical profession accountable for the deeds. I'd hope the medical profession would deal with it. Has the catholic church? well, maybe they still working on it.


Does drug addiction count as a deviant illegal crime? Medical professionals of all sorts have a significantly higher tendency towards drug addiction than other professions. Its generally hushed up though. I guess that's one way to deal with it.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2009 8:50pm by Deathwysh
#16 Jan 22 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
Anna wrote:
I'll say in Boston, it prompted the Cardinal to resign.


To be fair, Cardinal Law was a massive douche who knew about the bad touch & moved the Priest from town to town instead of, ya know, stopping it.
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#17 Jan 22 2009 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Deathwysh wrote:


Does drug addiction count as a deviant illegal crime? Medical professionals of all sorts have a significantly higher tendency towards drug addiction than other professions. Its generally hushed up though. I guess that's one way to deal with it.
Smiley: lol

Does drug addiction count as a deviant illegal crime?
yes :5 (31.2%)
no :6 (37.5%)
maybe so:1 (6.2%)
gfy:4 (25.0%)
Total:16
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#18 Jan 22 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
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"Deviancy" is such a politically loaded term.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#19 Jan 23 2009 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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Gwyn seems happy to gloss over the number of Catholic Priests raped every day by Daleks.

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#20 Jan 23 2009 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
A few hundred years ago, this would've been common practice. Not to mention during the Middle Ages. Man, the popes knew how to have fun back then.

So, really, in context, and everything being relative, the Church is getting a lot better. Slowly but surely...
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#21 Jan 23 2009 at 2:19 AM Rating: Decent
Nobby wrote:
Gwyn seems happy to gloss over the number of Catholic Priests raped every day by Daleks.



I'm afraid you know too much...

Never thought I'd get a chance to say that on Alla.
#22 Jan 23 2009 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
Good morning Kavekk!

I have a few questions:

1) What do you do in life?
2) Where in the UK do you live?
3) Which team do you support?
4) In a fight betwen Boris Johnson and Ann Widdicombe, who would be the first to call a time out for a snack?
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