israel / hamasFollow

I have stated at least twice that any militancy is wrong and should be condemned, don't twist this to think that I am somehow an advocate for Hamas. To make it more obvious...

I officially condemn Hamas as being truly ****** up people (although that doesn't mean they don't have value as human beings.)

Now will you join me in condemning Israel for murdering innocent children?

I am a peace advocate so I am going to say smother them with love. Of course everyone who lives in an imperialistic military industrial state will laugh at that as they have been programmed to do, so here are some basic things that I think everyone should agree on.

Israel should at the very least...

- abide by international law and Geneva conventions
- stop firing rockets into school playgrounds, universities, fire stations, and medical stores
- stop murdering innocent civilians as insignificant collateral damage
- not overreact and use excessive force compared to what has been used against them

If they did those things then I can understand them going after terrorists who bomb their cities with a vengeance as long as they are not careless in their pursuit.

Well a first step could be to stop giving them recruiting material.

You can't negotitate with Hamas but you can't get rid of them with air strike either. Unless you give a reason to the next generation of palestinian children not to join Hamas, they will always exist.

Bombing them when you know you will kill innocent children while achieving absolutely nothing is stupid. Doing nothing will achieve the same result minus the dead kids.

Unfortunately, as you said yourself, this conflict is more than just Israel-Palestine or jews-arabs. In the end though, Israel is the only one that can make the painful concession necessary to one day end this conflict. The longer they keep using Gaza and the fight against Hamas as a political tool, the longer it will take before they see peace and security.

Well, they did always intend to follow it with a land invasion.

I think everyone here - yes, even you, soulshaver - can agree that Israel just wants to be rid of the Gaza strip. They tried to pawn it off on Egypt, but Egypt didn't take it because it was a hotbed of Palestinian radicalism and militancy. Israel would love, so much, for the Gaza strip to stop being a problem. It has no material value to them and they would only waste men and resources trying to hold on to it.

The problem is that the ******* in Gaza's backyard won't stop firing missiles over the border. That's the end of it. Israel doesn't invade Gaza because it wants to create a zionist empire. It does it because the ******** in Gaza keep ******* hurling bombs at them.

Many many times over the last 50 years Israel have abidded by a ceasefire that could have stopped the conflict for good, many time they have given up consessions that could have stopped the conflict for good.

Their goodwill and wish to end the conflict has been resulted in dead Athlete's, suicide bombers, missile attacks and 50 years of hate.

At no point has Hamas ever had a goal other than the total destruction of Israel to the last man, woman and child, they periodicly call ceasefires to re arm before sending the latest wave of death accross the border, so do not act like these people are innocent victims, they knew what Hamas stood for and voted them in.

Arafat foresook violence in a effort to get a lasting peace and was no sooner in office than the Palistinians turned against him.

Who's trying to make peace and who isn't.

It wouldn't make you right and they are not being occupied or oppressed, Isreal have no interest in Gaza other than not being bombed by people living there.

Another picture of the West bank

Another picture of the Negev

we can all pull picture to support our arguement but we both know all ofthe east side Israel is arid semi desert no matter where on the east side of the country you happen to be.




Edited, Jan 3rd 2009 2:41pm by tarv

Seriously, I doubt anyone will miss it. If it wasn't for 750,000 people with nothing to do but make more babies and kill their neighbours no one would miss gaza either..

This didn't answer my question.Absolute bullshit. As I said, Hamas could end this conflict this hour by publicly calling for a ceasefire, withdrawing and allowing whatever inspectors are needed. This hour. If Israel said this hour that they were stopping, they'd just get more rocket attacks. See, Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Israel isn't out to destroy Gaza. Notice the difference?

But it's Israel who has to give up stuff to end a conflict that'll only be ended in Hamas' eyes by Israel's complete destruction. Right Except I never said he was an advocate for Hamas. I said it was fucked up that he railed against the minor player in the "OMG MURDER BABIES!!!" part but negelected to directly condemn the principle player in "OMG MURDER BABIES!!!" aspect.

And, yes, I intentionally diminish that aspect of it with that wording because, strangely, it only seemed to apply as a tool against Israel in all of his posts. If he cares so little about it that he wouldn't have immediately condemned Hamas for it, it deserves to be diminished. Not as a tragedy but diminished as an argument.

Martyr isn't a pretty color on either of you.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2009 2:05pm by Jophiel

Too bad the other 50% did, huh? Maybe they should worry more about their children rather then sell them out to sick fuckers who want to strap bombs to them and throw them at Israel.

Thanks, Dad!

Edited, Jan 3rd 2009 2:06pm by Jophiel

To be fair, they were choosing between Hamas and Fatah. That's like choosing between a militant group that hates Israel and a highly corrupt and inept militant group that hates Israel.

I'm sure they have such a wonderful life in the west bank...

Regarding #2, do you deny that Israel has bombed a school playground, a fire station, a university, a medical facility, and today a Mosque?

If you are simply going to deny reality as supported by factual evidence then there really is no point in continuing.

Also, if you object to the word murder in #3 I will switch it to kill. Israel should stop killing innocent civilians. Do you disagree with that? You think Israel should kill innocent civilians, including children?

Regarding #4, you honestly think that by killing over 400 people in a week is proportionate to the death of 19 people over the last 8 years by Hamas? Killing innocent children is not an excessive use of force?



The idea that all of the people in Gaza voted Hamas into power and are therefore liable to be killed by rockets is absurd. The Israeli government set up Hamas to begin with as a counter to the PLO.

After Arafat was murdered, Sharon declared that Abbas, who took his place, was a "plucked chicken," and was not allowed the slightest political achievement. The negotiations became a joke. The most authentic leader of Fatah (Barghouti) was sent to prison for life. There were no prisoner releases, just symbolic gestures that were petty and insulting.

After Abbas was systematically humiliated and Fatah looked like an empty shell, the people were left with Hamas as the only party that seemed strong enough not to cave into Israeli demands.