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Is Bush the Worst President of the Past 50 Years?Follow

#27 Dec 16 2008 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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The lesson of the Titanic, much like the lesson of the Bush Administration, is that hubris invites comeuppance.

There, tied it all together.

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#28 Dec 17 2008 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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The lesson of the Titanic, much like the lesson of the Bush Administration, is that hubris invites comeuppance. It wasn't an "Accident"
There, tied it all together.
Fixified.
#29 Dec 17 2008 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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First off, it's a bit absurd to argue that the Titanic was "bound to sink", given that thousands of sailing vessels with far less capacity to withstand crashing into an iceberg (much less manage high seas, storms, etc) managed to sail safely on the oceans for decades before and after the Titanic. By that logic, not a single ship should have ever been on the ocean. It's more correct to say that out of all the ships on the ocean at any given time, some percentage of them are going to run into mishaps and sink. The Titanic just got unlucky. Let's not read anything more into it than that.


Elinda wrote:
Nixon was NOT over-endowed with morals and values, but he wasn't a complete dolt, like Bush.


Nixon was also viewed much worse when he left office than he was over time. After a couple decades has passed, a lot of people softened their view of his administration and realized that while the scandal and problems of Watergate got all the attention, he actually did a whole lot of really good things while in office.

I suspect it'll be similar of Bush. Right now, it's all about Abu Graib, and illegal wars, torture at Gitmo, and a failing economy. In 10 or 20 years, people will look back on his administration with a much more objective eye. They'll see the things that went right when all they're seeing today is the things that went wrong.

Lincoln was one of the most hated Presidents in history when he was in office. I'm not saying that Bush is Lincoln, but that we shouldn't assume that how a president is viewed when he's in office is at all like how he'll be viewed by history. It's very possible that people will look back at Bush's handling of the aftermath of 9/11 and see that he charted a good course in very rough seas (just as Lincoln did during the civil war). It's easy to be president when everything is going well. It's when things don't that they are tested. And when that happens they are almost never recognized at the time for the good decisions they made and actions they took. Only the fact that things weren't so good...
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#30 Dec 17 2008 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nope, Carter was.
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#31 Dec 17 2008 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
They'll see the things that went right when all they're seeing today is the things that went wrong.


Name five that could in any way be seen to balance the ones you named. Not going to happen. He may not be the worst president, but he will surely fall in the bottom ten.
#32 Dec 18 2008 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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If for nothing else, I think he'll be condemned, and condemned badly, in history books for invading Iraq, and for his treatment of prisoners of war and terrorist suspects.
#33 Dec 18 2008 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
If for nothing else, I think he'll be condemned, and condemned badly, in history books for invading Iraq, and for his treatment of prisoners of war and terrorist suspects.



And domestically for his roughshod ride over civil rights, the unmitigated disaster of Katrina, and his cavalier perfidy with regards to the environment. Never has one person put so many foxes in charge of so many henhouses.

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#34 Dec 18 2008 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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There's precious little good in Bush's two terms that will be visible from the overwhelming shadow of the bad. George Bush is not Abraham Lincoln.
#35 Dec 18 2008 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Never has one person put so many foxes in charge of so many henhouses.
Speaking of, his selection of such luminaries as Michael Brown, Alberto Gonzales and Harriet Miers may warrant a mention.
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#36 Dec 18 2008 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
If for nothing else, I think he'll be condemned, and condemned badly, in history books for invading Iraq, and for his treatment of prisoners of war and terrorist suspects.



And domestically for his roughshod ride over civil rights, the unmitigated disaster of Katrina, and his cavalier perfidy with regards to the environment. Never has one person put so many foxes in charge of so many henhouses.
Im guessing when history is written he'll be the name associated with the Iraq war, which will mean no more to most except it followed 9-11 and ended the evil Saddam's reign of terror.

No Child Left Behind has produced numbers that support it's success (higher test scores on standardized tests). How much the numbers actually translate to a successfully edumacated America will likely never be discovered.

I honestly don't think history will be that hard on Bush. He left no ***-stained green dresses lying around the white house and happened to be President when the Country suffered it's worst hostile act, on it's home turf, in history. He'll get credit for seeing us through 9-11.
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#37 Dec 18 2008 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Right now, it all really depends on what color glasses you're looking through. For those who think that Bush singlehandedly consoled and comforted the entire nation after 9/11 and raised the GPA in public schools won't acknowledge that he turned the country into an invasive nanny state.
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#38 Dec 18 2008 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
My prediction is that the most significant issue for future generations will be the massive debt incurred.

Unlike the war (which Bush misled the public into) the minority who voted for Bush were as informed as possible of what his tax cuts would do for them in the short run and their descendants in the long run.
#39 Dec 18 2008 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
history will decide.

if the middle east starts chanting democracy and moderation because of the mess he started in iraq 20 or 30 years from now, he will end up being the greatest president of the 21st century.

on the other hand, if they are still smiting each other by then and still chanting "death to america".....

yes.
#40 Dec 18 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Paskil wrote:
gbaji wrote:
They'll see the things that went right when all they're seeing today is the things that went wrong.


Name five that could in any way be seen to balance the ones you named. Not going to happen. He may not be the worst president, but he will surely fall in the bottom ten.


Well. The first depends on how the Iraq war ends up being viewed in the future. It's not out of the realm of possibility that in 20-30 years, Iraq will be viewed as a huge success and the absolute "right decision". Which reduces the negative impact of three out of the four things I listed as negatives and replaces them with a huge positive. The lesson of Lincoln applies here. The Civil war was viewed as an illegal war at the time, in violation of the Constitution and States Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation was also viewed as illegal, a stretch of executive power and a violation of Supreme Court decisions on the subject (ergo, also a violation of the Constitution). Lincoln also aggressively suppressed the Press during his term, in ways that far far outstrip the worst suspected aspects of the Patriot Act under Bush. Yet, those were all connected to an action (Civil War) which today is overwhelmingly viewed as the right thing to have done. History therefore views all the actions he took in the course of accomplishing that in a much more positive light than they were at the time.

Take that away and you have essentially the economy as the only major thing laid out on Bush's presidency. Katrina is in there as well, but I suspect it'll be a minor footnote as the initial emotions of the event fade away. Heck. It's already almost a non-issue just a few years later, occasionally brought up as a "remember Katrina?" sort of news story.


In terms of positives, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars may very well be viewed that way (but not today). No Child Left Behind, while not monumental has shown far better results than most predicted. The economic recovery of 2002-2003 is pretty darn impressive too, and may provide historical backdrop for the economic problems we're facing today when viewed in the future. People may see how Bush responded to economic collapse of 2001 and compare it to the actions taken in 2008 (and 2009 under Obama) and see how when Bush's ideas were followed (ie: The tax cuts under Republican congress and president) the economy recovered, but when they weren't (Dem congress followed by Dem president), things went poorly. Of course, we don't yet know how this will go, so it's impossible to look at the results.

It's hard to count just single things though. Presidential terms are generally judged by trends and big events. I'm quite sure that Bush's terms will be overwhelmingly judged based on the long term success or failure in Iraq. Period.


To put this in context though. Name 5 positive things that Clinton will be remembered for. It's kinda hard to identify multiple defining things for any president. There's usually only one or two "big things", and for Bush the future judgment of those things are still in doubt.
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#41 Dec 18 2008 at 7:01 PM Rating: Default
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Well. The first depends on how the Iraq war ends up being viewed in the future. It's not out of the realm of possibility that in 20-30 years, Iraq will be viewed as a huge success and the absolute "right decision".


By Al Queda? Sure.
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#42 Dec 18 2008 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Nope, Carter was.


See above.
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#43 Dec 18 2008 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
Aripyanfar wrote:
I can only list Bush Junior, Clinton, Bush Senior, Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy and Carter? off the top of my head.


If it makes you feel better, I was born and raised here, and I couldn't name all of those that you named. I would've forgotten Carter, heh.
#44 Dec 18 2008 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Well. The first depends on how the Iraq war ends up being viewed in the future. It's not out of the realm of possibility that in 20-30 years, Iraq will be viewed as a huge success and the absolute "right decision".


By Al Queda? Sure.


Yup. And the ****'s were helped so much by the US entering WW2. And come to think of it, the Secessionists were so helped by Lincoln deciding to have a civil war instead of just letting them go.

Yes. Let us just assume that our enemies are always benefited by any military action we may choose to engage in regardless of why or how.
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#45 Dec 18 2008 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Paradox wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
I can only list Bush Junior, Clinton, Bush Senior, Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy and Carter? off the top of my head.


If it makes you feel better, I was born and raised here, and I couldn't name all of those that you named. I would've forgotten Carter, heh.


Wait, Carter was a President? I thought he just built houses.
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#46 Dec 18 2008 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone who thinks Katrina has been "all but forgotten" isn't paying attention.

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#47 Dec 18 2008 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
People may see how Bush responded to economic collapse of 2001 and compare it to the actions taken in 2008 (and 2009 under Obama) and see how when Bush's ideas were followed (ie: The tax cuts under Republican congress and president) the economy recovered
...well, up until 2008, anyway Smiley: laugh
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#48 Dec 19 2008 at 5:47 AM Rating: Decent
No. If you had been around 50 years, you would understand that Carter is the worst President in 50 years. The current economic crisis is due mostly to ACORN or ACORN-like activists that pressured banks into making home loans to people that would not normally qualify for loans. It was a time bomb tick tick ticking away. Now we are starting to see the fruits of so much deception. People cannot pay their home loans, many of which they got by signing off paper work that grossly over stated their annual income.

So, stupid liberals convinced poor people they deserved loans and not to worry about a little thing like that they were LYING on documents about their income or ability to pay. Enough people can't pay and ruin their credit to the point where, as a nation, we are poor credit risks. Banks around the world get wind of this, and bam, suddenly there is a credit crisis.

In short, the liberals who encouraged poor people to lie, and forced banks to look the other way, are the the major source of the current economic crisis.

Carter, on the other hand, was stupid, stupid, stupid. Who remembers rationing of gasoline? everyone who could drive back then. Who remembers gas prices declining because of rationing? No one. The answer was always in supply and demand. Who remembers the hostages in Iran? 444 days. Who remembers the USS Cole? Iran and Carter, through his own weakness, painted targets on the US. For that, I will always say, Carter was the worst president EVER.

#49 Dec 19 2008 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Todmagische wrote:
No. If you had been around 50 years, you would understand that Carter is the worst President in 50 years. The current economic crisis is due mostly to ACORN or ACORN-like activists that pressured banks into making home loans to people that would not normally qualify for loans. It was a time bomb tick tick ticking away. Now we are starting to see the fruits of so much deception. People cannot pay their home loans, many of which they got by signing off paper work that grossly over stated their annual income.

So, stupid liberals convinced poor people they deserved loans and not to worry about a little thing like that they were LYING on documents about their income or ability to pay. Enough people can't pay and ruin their credit to the point where, as a nation, we are poor credit risks. Banks around the world get wind of this, and bam, suddenly there is a credit crisis.
Yeah, what a dumb idea to give the lazy poor working peoples the right to organize, speak their minds, take out loans and live in houses. Smiley: rolleyes
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#50 Dec 19 2008 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, the idea behind rationing is not to bring the price down, particularly when that is not under our control.

Can you understand why, and what the purpose really might have been?
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#51 Dec 19 2008 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

Well. The first depends on how the Iraq war ends up being viewed in the future. It's not out of the realm of possibility that in 20-30 years, Iraq will be viewed as a huge success and the absolute "right decision".


By Al Queda? Sure.


Yup. And the ****'s were helped so much by the US entering WW2. And come to think of it, the Secessionists were so helped by Lincoln deciding to have a civil war instead of just letting them go.

Yes. Let us just assume that our enemies are always benefited by any military action we may choose to engage in regardless of why or how.


gbaji, check reality. Re-post.
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