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Interesting bit about torture and GitmoFollow

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#1 Dec 15 2008 at 11:56 PM Rating: Good
Paskil
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http://www.nin.com/ wrote:
12.11.08: Regarding NIN music used at Guantanamo Bay for torture
It's difficult for me to imagine anything more profoundly insulting, demeaning and enraging than discovering music you've put your heart and soul into creating has been used for purposes of torture.
If there are any legal options that can be realistically taken they will be aggressively pursued, with any potential monetary gains donated to human rights charities.
Thank GOD this country has appeared to side with reason and we can put the Bush administration's reign of power, greed, lawlessness and madness behind us.

Trent Reznor

posted by trent reznor at 11:36am


Interesting to me at least since I'm a Nine Inch Nails fan. I assume he has no legal recourse (aside from spending a lot of money having a lawyer tell him this). Emotional distress aside, I can't imagine how terrible I would feel knowing something I created was used to break another human.


Edit: After click the article link to the message boards, the first post had a link to the story that alerted Trent Reznor to his musics usage.

Here if interested

Edited, Dec 16th 2008 3:00am by Paskil
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#2REDACTED, Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 12:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Someone sounds pretty butthurt that his music was something that actually succeeded in causing someone to be upset. Thank GOD this country will have a new president soon because I am sick and tired of hearing about the "I hate bush" whining.
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#3 Dec 16 2008 at 12:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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AlexanderrOfAsura wrote:
Quote:
Thank GOD this country has appeared to side with reason and we can put the Bush administration's reign of power, greed, lawlessness and madness behind us.



Someone sounds pretty butthurt that his music was something that actually succeeded in causing someone to be upset. Thank GOD this country will have a new president soon because I am sick and tired of hearing about the "I hate bush" whining.


Smiley: oyvey

linked msnbc article wrote:
“There was loud music, (Eminem’s) ‘Slim Shady’ and Dr. Dre for 20 days. I heard this nonstop over and over,” he told his lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith. “The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night for the months before I left. Plenty lost their minds.”

...

Ruhal Ahmed, a Briton who was captured in Afghanistan, describes excruciating sessions at Guantanamo Bay. He said his hands were shackled to his feet, which were shackled to the floor, forcing him into a painful squat for periods of up to two days.

“You’re in agony,” Ahmed, who was released without charge in 2004, told Reprieve. He said the agony was compounded when music was introduced, because “before you could actually concentrate on something else, try to make yourself focus on some other things in your life that you did before and take that pain away.

“It makes you feel like you are going mad,” he said.

...

He said he was locked in an overcooled 9-foot-by-9-foot cell that had a speaker with a metal grate over it. Two large speakers stood in the hallway outside. The music was almost constant, mostly hard rock, he said.

“There was a lot of Nine Inch Nails, including ‘March of the Pigs,”’ he said. “I couldn’t tell you how many times I heard Queen’s ‘We Will Rock You.”’

He wore only a jumpsuit and flip-flops and had no protection from the cold.

“I had no blanket or sheet. If I had, I would probably have tried suicide,” he said. “I got to a few points toward the end where I thought, ‘How can I do this?’ Actively plotting, ‘How can I get away with it so they don’t stop it?”’

Asked to describe the experience, Vance said: “It sort of removes you from you. You can no longer formulate your own thoughts when you’re in an environment like that.”

He was released after 97 days. Two years later, he says, “I keep my home very quiet.”


Fuck you.

I'm pretty sure I would be a bit more than upset.
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#4 Dec 16 2008 at 4:50 AM Rating: Good
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I'm a bit too distressed by this whole thing to make a cogent post about it.

I'm on the side of people who wholeheartedly from the first have believed the activities in Guantanamo bay and other rendition places were torture by any name, and contravened international law, and moral right. Those activities... and I believe it was government and high end military responsible, not rogue low level soldiers.... made us the "bad guys".

While I was a uni student I had a side job as a life drawing model. I've since spent a lot of time in hospital and at home in various levels of excruciating pain, discomfort, and disability with my chronic illness. I'm intimately familiar with the "pain scale" they used at Guantanamo Bay and talked about in the Senate sessions, the same one is used in Australian hospitals and emergency situations. The military submissions that an "8" or "9" on the pain scale does not constitute torture is an insult to humanity.

Life drawing these days is a very carefully negotiated and legally protected foray into consenting pain...but not too much pain or long term injury, in order to gift artists with the opportunity of an interestingly posed 3-D human model. I'm also intimately familiar with the sorts of poses that humans can hold in stillness before going into excruciating agony, that turns into crippling and screaming agony if you come out with a limb that's had all the blood driven out of it for any length of time. If the blood has been out of a leg for close to an hour, the pain is light years beyond ordinary pins and needles, and takes a subjective century to die down. It's a mistake you only make once.

The more constricting or unsupported poses in life drawing are only held for minutes at a time. I could right a wall of text about the various poses they put prisoners in, and why each one was excruciating, and exactly how many minutes in it started to be agonising. And then another wall of text about how crippling and mentally traumatising and permanently mentally scarring long term pain is, even if the body wasn't permanently "injured" in a macro scale. Throw in that this pain was forced on you by other humans. I can't tell you how ashamed I've been over My government condoning and participating in this.

Nine Inch Nails is one of my favourite bands. Very good favourite music that strongly lifts my spirits has been invaluable to help cope with physical pain when chemical pain killers in high enough doses to actually work would injure or kill me. The thought that music, that invaluable flowering of and aid to humanity, has been used to injure people both in the short and long term, just sickens me to my stomach.

Edited, Dec 16th 2008 7:59am by Aripyanfar
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#5 Dec 16 2008 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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How very ironic that the music of Rage Against the Machine would be used.

Sleep deprivation is really what we're talking about, and that IS a form of torture.

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#6 Dec 16 2008 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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In related news.... From SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE INQUIRY INTO THE TREATMENT OF DETAINEES IN U.S. CUSTODY out this week :

Quote:
The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees. Those efforts damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority. This report is a product of the Committee’s inquiry into how those unfortunate results came about.



LINK.

From the conclusions :


Quote:
Conclusion 1: On February 7, 2002, President George W. Bush made a written determination that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards for humane treatment, did not apply to al Qaeda or Taliban detainees. Following the President’s determination, techniques such as waterboarding, nudity, and stress positions, used in SERE training to simulate tactics used by enemies that refuse to follow the Geneva Conventions, were authorized for use in interrogations of detainees in U.S. custody.


And :
Quote:

Conclusion 19: The abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own. Interrogation techniques such as stripping detainees of their clothes, placing them in stress positions, and using military working dogs to intimidate them appeared in Iraq only after they had been approved for use in Afghanistan and at GTMO. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s December 2, 2002 authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques and subsequent interrogation policies and plans approved by senior military and civilian officials conveyed the message that physical pressures and degradation were appropriate treatment for detainees in U.S. military custody. What followed was an erosion in standards dictating that detainees be treated humanely.


Quote:
“What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight… is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also all human beings”
-- General David Petraeus
May 10, 2007


Indeed Smiley: dubious
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#7 Dec 16 2008 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Update. None of this is an issue. DiCk Cheney says so

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#8 Dec 16 2008 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Que?
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#9 Dec 16 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
Que?
He basically defends waterboarding and says it would be folly to close gitmo
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#10 Dec 16 2008 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Ah. Well he's a cnut then.
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#11 Dec 17 2008 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought maybe a few of you would be interested in a military spouse website's members' take on this.

Pretty much what it breaks down to is one girls husband is caught up in the GitMo abuse scandal and the big debate to if military law trumps international law. I personally hope that the guy serves time for his involvement but I'm a big ol' meanie poopoo head who thinks we should follow GC.

Link( it gets good on about page 4.)

Edited, Dec 17th 2008 12:38pm by Katielynn
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