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Benefit Reform in the UKFollow

#1 Dec 10 2008 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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We Brits have a habit of sneering down our noses at America. The land where there is no safety net to catch you should you fall foul of no health insurance, no employment and the other inconvieniences of life that sometimes hurt us. We look on with pride at our services, much maligned here they are still far better than anything currently universally available in America.
We have the NHS, unemployment benefit and also disability benefit. The problem that all this brings is abuse ... clear and total abuse.

Its being reformed Smiley: smile

I'm very happy to see some changes. I would be a labour supporter but for a hard streak in me where I come out a little Tory. I agree with the idea that the state should be spending money and investing for people who cannot work due to illnesses but I am tired of those who will not work. The type who will not even look for work, even if they can work. Why am I paying taxes for these layabouts?

I guess this comes down to rights and while I truly believe we all have a right to be caught when we fall by the state, I also believe we have a right to starve should we be lazy.

What do Americans here think about the changes?
#2 Dec 10 2008 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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GwynapNud the Braindead wrote:
I truly believe we all have a right to be caught when we fall by the state, I also believe we have a right to starve should we be lazy.
It must be nice living in Utopia. Smiley: dubious

And how, pray, does one define laziness as opposed to, say, undiagnosed depression, unemployment through discrimination, or those in abusive housholds that prevent them from working?

If anything is lazy, it's that simplistic and dangerous argument that destroyed families and communities in the '30s, '50s and '80s.

And as a proportion of GDP, it's less relevant to us economically than Britney Spears' new single Smiley: oyvey

But it keeps the self-righteous Daily Mail readers happy Smiley: tongue
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#3 Dec 10 2008 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
But it keeps the self-righteous Daily Mail readers happy Smiley: tongue


Smiley: mad I never read that omg. You hurt me more than you know Smiley: frown

I admit I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally where the system is openly abused.
#4 Dec 10 2008 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress GwynapNud wrote:
I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally
In that case, I recant.

That's clearly a valid basis for a major social reform that sets out to take away food from hungry children!

Where do I sign?
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#5 Dec 10 2008 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
Mistress GwynapNud wrote:
I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally
In that case, I recant.

That's clearly a valid basis for a major social reform that sets out to take away food from hungry children!

Where do I sign?


On this form here, in blood ....
#6 Dec 10 2008 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress GwynapNud wrote:
Nobby wrote:
Where do I sign?


On this form here, in blood ....
Blood?

If you were to get a phlebotomist to extract the contents of my veins, they'd find that Stella Artois and Chablis don't make good ink Smiley: clown
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#7 Dec 10 2008 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally


This is an excellent way to arrive at public policy positions.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#8 Dec 10 2008 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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The plural of anecdote is still not data.

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#9 Dec 10 2008 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally


This is an excellent way to arrive at public policy positions.
Can you warn me next time you decide to channel Maggie Thatcher?
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#10 Dec 10 2008 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
The plural of anecdote is still not data.

I am sooooo going to use this!!!

This is why you will, one day, be mine Samira. Smiley: inlove
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#11 Dec 10 2008 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally


This is an excellent way to arrive at public policy positions.


I did not arrive at the policy, you give me too much credit as it was James Purnell.

Obviously I trust my public bodies to partake in engagement with the relevant stakeholders to arrive at a well researched and fair arrangements ... I just happen to agree with the outcome as it fits my personal experience.
#12 Dec 10 2008 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress GwynapNud wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

I am going from experience and a few cases I know of personally


This is an excellent way to arrive at public policy positions.


I did not arrive at the policy, you give me too much credit as it was James Purnell.

Obviously I trust my public bodies to partake in engagement with the relevant stakeholders to arrive at a well researched and fair arrangements ... I just happen to agree with the outcome as it fits my personal experience.
So you elect people to follow your will, then distance yourself from the policy for which you elected them.

Riiiiiight Smiley: um
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#13 Dec 10 2008 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I did not arrive at the policy, you give me too much credit


I'd say the odds of that are fairly low. On the order of Christ signing autographs photos of the Crucifixion at my local gas station tomorrow.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#14 Dec 10 2008 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,086 posts
Nobby wrote:
So you elect people to follow your will, then distance yourself from the policy for which you elected them.

Riiiiiight Smiley: um


I cannot have my cake and eat it? Smiley: queen
#15 Dec 10 2008 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,086 posts
Smasharoo wrote:

I did not arrive at the policy, you give me too much credit


I'd say the odds of that are fairly low. On the order of Christ signing autographs photos of the Crucifixion at my local gas station tomorrow.



I would like to see that so I could also see the magic flying jew taking pictures of his little boy. What time is it?
#16 Dec 10 2008 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

I did not arrive at the policy, you give me too much credit


I'd say the odds of that are fairly low. On the order of Christ signing autographs photos of the Crucifixion at my local gas station tomorrow.

Your gas station sux. Just go for the 4 hi-ball tumblers or the LED flahs-light offer.
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"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#17 Dec 10 2008 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
Irrelevant anecdotal experiences are great fun, aren't they?

#18 Dec 10 2008 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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GwynapNud the Braindead wrote:
What do Americans here think about the changes?


I think you should skip right to the end and institute workcamps for everyone. That way you know that everyone is working as hard as they physically can...
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More words please
#19 Dec 10 2008 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Expect what ever agency that decides wither someone is disable or not to be deluged with new applications as it is realized that some people just can't keep a job no matter how well you try to train them.

Social Security Disability applications rose, after Clinton sign Welfare Reform in the 90's.
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This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
#20 Dec 10 2008 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Most people on incapacity benefit would be expected to attend job interviews.


This seems a bit absurd.

Quote:
Under the plans drug users would get a treatment allowance instead of unemployment benefits - and would have to show they were addressing their addiction to receive them.


This may work for some addicts, but would be better on a case by case basis. Perhaps big blanket policies aren't always the best way to go.

The requirements placed on jobless benefits seem similar to the ones in place in many States here in Americaland. I have no further comment on this portion.

I was happy to see that there are no plans to cut NHS funding for machines that go "PING!"



Edited, Dec 11th 2008 1:25am by Natdatilgnome
#21 Dec 11 2008 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
Nobby wrote:
This is why you will, one day, be mine Samira. Smiley: inlove


I'm terribly affronted by this statement. Nobby, I hereby challenge you to a duel!

Should we do it the traditional way? Naked in Trafalgar Square, at midnight, armed with a pickled mackerel?

On a more serious note, I've got a one-on-one meeting with Chris Huhne today at the HoC. I'll ask him what he thinks of dirty benefit scroungers.

Actually, I won't, I just wanted to indulge in some name-dropping. A name that no one on this board has ever heard before, but a name nonetheless.

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