The Suicidal TouristFollow

Apparently, force their loved ones to suffer indescribably agonizing pain and complete lack of independent function just to "be" with them and then have teh nerve call them selfish when they simply can't find the strength to carry on.

Thats fine. The occasional rate up/down is perfectly normal. How does one end up sub-default for taking part in a perfectly rational debate though?

It hasn't happened to me in awhile, and it made me remember why I stopped posting in threads like this.

Really? You care enough about your karma to not post in threads because you might get sub-d?

Wow, I didn't think fear of rate downs actually made posters stop posting. Maybe I should use that arrow more.

ASh, why do you even care if someone wants to end it?

In my opinion, a better question is why don't you?

Are we really such an indifferent society that we can ignore when someone removes themselves from it?

I used to think suicide was for pussies and there was no excuse for it. A few years ago, Hunter Thompson offed himself and it made me think more about it. It's been said he largely did it because of on-going medical conditions that seriously affected his quality of life to the point where he felt that dying was better than living on in that condition. Around the same time, my Grandmother had to be put into a hospice. Her health had deteriated to the point where it was miserable for me to visit her. The drugs she was on affected her mind pretty severely, to the point where there were only an hour or so a day where she was actually fully aware of her surroundings and what was going on. She also had no control over her bodily functions, and even eating real food was a risk because the food could end up going down the wrong pipe and into her lungs. She lived on like that for 5 months.

I came to realize that if I were ever in that state, I would prefer someone just smother me in my sleep. Given that pretty much all of my family probably wouldn't be able to do that, I would have to take matters into my own hands.

Because it's their life. Not mine. Same reason I don't give a **** if 2 men want to get married. If it gives them peace of mind, let them. Why should I dictate anyone else's life when it has no bearing on my own?

When I originally became aware of issues like this I often arrived at conclusions very similar to what DSD was saying. It made sense initially, but as I got older and thought about it some more I found my original answers unsatisfactory, and had to revise them. Maybe when I've had a few more years to think about it some more I'll revise them again and end up where I started, I don't know yet.



This is what I found stupid, because the answer is yes. People do that. Think about it. You can have another month in chronic pain with your family nearby, or you can not have that month at all. I just can't understand why some people choose to not have that time.

That's another phrase that bugs me. "Dying with dignity." What's dignified about suicide? More to the point, what's humiliating about dying a natural death?

It might be humiliating to be laid up and not be able to clean yourself, control your bowel movements and have to be changed like a baby, unable to speak coherantly or enjoy any point of the day. Some folks might consider that humiliating.

But I guess it's a "natural" death so it's alright.

People with Down syndrome don't kill themselves.

He's just fallen back on the time-honored forum behavior of trivializing an issue he doesn't understand.

Sometimes the pain is too great or the deterioration too inhibiting such that another month is useless. What difference does it make if a 75 year old cancer patient who is conscious maybe 2 hours a day due to the painkillers wants to end his suffering? Maybe he's had a good long life and is happy to leave this world as he is? It's selfish of the family not to understand such a condition / request, not the other way around. You're being pretty stupid about it, honestly.



Picture yourself laid up in a hospital bed pissing and sh*tting yourself on a regular basis only to have to ask the nice young nurse to change your bed pan, except that you haven't the strength to lift your own legs and remove it, so they have to get a second nurse to come in and help roll your limp body onto a secondary temporary bed while they clean the remains of your urine and fecal matter from the night before. Add to that the idea that you might have to be spoon fed jello and hooked up to a drip because you can't stomach anything else or sit up to feed yourself. Imagine not being able to bathe or dress yourself because you haven't the strength to move even one limb more than a few inches at a time.

Now, imagine having the option to simply go to sleep and never have to deal with all of that humiliation and embarrassment again. Imagine being able to move on peacefully, without shame, knowing that people who have a far greater chance of survival than you do are now getting better treatment because the nurse / doctors don't have to tend to your almost certainly fatal condition on a regular basis.

Your refusal to understand that some people would simply prefer to move on is selfish and stupid. Your willingness to trap an individual in a situation they cannot control nor improve for the sake of your own morals is selfish and stupid. Your opinion that it is unreasonable for someone in such a state to wish to expedite the exit process in the least humiliating and painful way possible is selfish and stupid.

Edited, Dec 12th 2008 11:07am by BrownDuck

Edited, Dec 12th 2008 11:07am by BrownDuck

Edited, Dec 12th 2008 11:09am by BrownDuck