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The use of the word gayFollow

#1 Dec 09 2008 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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I bought this up in another thread but really, why is it fine to group all homosexuals together and say a phrase "the gays", "a gay"? It seems to be an American turn of phrase to use such expression.

We do not say "The hetrosexuals" or "a hetrosexual". We do not class ourselves by other sexual preferences, so why is being gay so special? I realise that Prop 8 has bought the issue of gay marraige to the forefront and my own opinions are known there (could not care less, why are irrational small minded people who worship an invisible being in the sky allowed to stop it?).
I just cannot understand wishing to be grouped by a sexuality, the same as I cannot understand (for example) being grouped by my choice of breakfast.

So could someone please explain to me why it is fine in America to refer to people who are gay as a collective "the gays" and why it is okay to refer to "a gay". I say this as a confused "a single", "a hetrosexual" woman who does not understand Yankish very well.

#2 Dec 10 2008 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
To me, it seems like it's used in the same sense as:

"The brits..."
"The blacks..."
"The hookers"
"The seal clubbers..."

It's just a generic classification of a group of people, really. Nothing more. I find that in accordance with this classification, the phrase "the gays" is generally reserved for use in discussion regarding the rights of said group based on their sexuality, which makes sense. As an example, I have not heard of "the gays" used in a scenario not involving sexuality and sexual rights, such as "the gays are hard workers". I'm sure it's been done, but I don't usually hear it used that way.
#3 Dec 10 2008 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
GwynapNud the Braindead wrote:
I bought this up in another thread but really, why is it fine to group all homosexuals together and say a phrase "the gays", "a gay"? It seems to be an American turn of phrase to use such expression.

We do not say "The hetrosexuals" or "a hetrosexual". We do not class ourselves by other sexual preferences, so why is being gay so special? I realise that Prop 8 has bought the issue of gay marraige to the forefront and my own opinions are known there (could not care less, why are irrational small minded people who worship an invisible being in the sky allowed to stop it?).
I just cannot understand wishing to be grouped by a sexuality, the same as I cannot understand (for example) being grouped by my choice of breakfast.

So could someone please explain to me why it is fine in America to refer to people who are gay as a collective "the gays" and why it is okay to refer to "a gay". I say this as a confused "a single", "a hetrosexual" woman who does not understand Yankish very well.



You're fucking gay.
#4 Dec 10 2008 at 3:08 AM Rating: Good
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GwynapNud the Braindead wrote:
We do not say "The hetrosexuals" or "a hetrosexual".


No, but some posters around here jokingly refer to the rest of us as "Breeders". I wouldn't let it bother you. There will always be labels, the only ones you should really care about are the ones truly meant to be derogatory and I just don't think "the gays" fits that.

When I refer to our homosexual brethren I usually say "gay people" but I don't think "the gays" is that greatly removed. A little tacky, sure. Unacceptable? Eh, probably not.

It wouldn't bother me in the least if our roles were reversed and heterosexuality was in the minority and people referred to my group as "the ----s".
#5 Dec 10 2008 at 3:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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The language of sexual identity and expression is in a state of flux and what may be acceptable in one circle, isn't in another, and the same goes from day to day. In fact, in most of the country and in research literature, we don't even refer to gay women as "gay", there are gay men and there are lesbians. The word homosexual is even being phased out. This is why you'll see longer and longer acronyms for gay rights groups, such as GLBTTQQA, haha.

Nexa
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#6 Dec 10 2008 at 3:52 AM Rating: Excellent
This thread is gayer than 8 guys boning 9 guys.
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#7 Dec 10 2008 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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In the distant past, no one said "Caucasian" in Britain, because non-Caucasians were so bloody rare. Now it's relevant to some conversations to make the distinction. "You look so striking in that white underwear. I envy you. I'm Caucasion, white underwear makes me look like my Grandmother."

In the same way, Homosexuality was such a taboo that Homosexuals just didn't exist, as far as the public was concerned. So there was no reason to make the distinction. Everyone was assumed to be Heterosexual. Now there's a reason to make the distinction. It's not a big deal, but it's real. "My cousin's gay, and there's just no one he can date at high school. He's pretty lonely. I hope he meets someone at Uni."

For people who aren't homophobic there's nothing derogatory about being gay, in comparison to being straight, the same way as there's nothing derogatory about being single compared to being partnered, being a female as against being a male, being a parent against being childless, being Caucasian against being Asian/African descended/whatever, being an atheist against being Catholic/Muslim/Bhuddist/whatever. But all these distinctions are useful and meaningful distinctions to make when talking about or planning social policy, or whenever else they're relevant.

"We should have a baby-change room in the new museum, for the parents"

"There are a lot of Muslim immigrants in this suburb, the local school's canteen should have a decent range of healthy halal food, so everyone can eat it."

"A lot of teenagers who have been kicked out of home for being gay are congregating in the inner city squats. We should make sure we send a suitably empathetic and approachable case worker who might have some success in reconciling them to their families. Failing that, blah de blah..."


#8 Dec 10 2008 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
In the distant past, no one said "Caucasian" in Britain, because non-Caucasians were so bloody rare. Now it's relevant to some conversations to make the distinction. "You look so striking in that white underwear. I envy you. I'm Caucasion, white underwear makes me look like my Grandmother."

I have never used the word caucasian in any other way than filling in a form.

You know those forms that are about racial equality yet by there very nature are racial.
#9 Dec 10 2008 at 4:58 AM Rating: Excellent
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
******
30,106 posts
I prefer to use the word, *****, FWIW. It's so much more encompassing.

Let's call everyone "The ******."

Btw, that includes transgressive heterosexuals.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 8:02am by Annabella
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#10 Dec 10 2008 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
Nexa wrote:
GLBTTQQA
Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, ?, *****, Questioning, Asexual.

Just have to find another T for that to be a perfectly reasonable acronym.
#11 Dec 10 2008 at 5:28 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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Mindel wrote:
Nexa wrote:
GLBTTQQA
Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, ?, *****, Questioning, Asexual.

Just have to find another T for that to be a perfectly reasonable acronym.


Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Transexual, *****, Questioning, and Allies (though Asexual could certainly add another "A"). Many campuses are opting to stop changing their campus organization names by picking something other than an acronym. A few years ago we voted to change the name of our GLBT resource center to the "Rainbow Resource Center" to cover all the bases and reflect an openness to even those affiliations which may or may not have a name.

Nexa
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#12 Dec 10 2008 at 5:34 AM Rating: Good
Imaginary Friend
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Quote:
I just cannot understand wishing to be grouped by a sexuality,



do they not group themselves? It is gay people who to me seem to want to express their sexuality as their lifestyles.. Which makes the lot of them sluts IMO.

You don't see "red-head lovers Pride" parade.. or the "guys who love giving oral" Parade.. do you?
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#13 Dec 10 2008 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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GwynapNud the Braindead wrote:
I bought this up in another thread but really, why is it fine to group all homosexuals together and say a phrase "the gays", "a gay"? It seems to be an American turn of phrase to use such expression.

We do not say "The hetrosexuals" or "a hetrosexual". We do not class ourselves by other sexual preferences, so why is being gay so special? I realise that Prop 8 has bought the issue of gay marraige to the forefront and my own opinions are known there (could not care less, why are irrational small minded people who worship an invisible being in the sky allowed to stop it?).
I just cannot understand wishing to be grouped by a sexuality, the same as I cannot understand (for example) being grouped by my choice of breakfast.

So could someone please explain to me why it is fine in America to refer to people who are gay as a collective "the gays" and why it is okay to refer to "a gay". I say this as a confused "a single", "a hetrosexual" woman who does not understand Yankish very well.
It's shorter than saying "people who prefer partners of the same sex".
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#14 Dec 10 2008 at 6:03 AM Rating: Excellent
YAY! Canaduhian
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And gay means happy, so what could be better than that?

Yay!
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#15 Dec 10 2008 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
Lady Tare wrote:
And gay means happy, so what could be better than that?


True, but it also means "rubbish", and what could be worse than that?

Lots of things, I suppose, but still.
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#16 Dec 10 2008 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Lady Tare wrote:
And gay means happy, so what could be better than that?


True, but it also means "rubbish", and what could be worse than that?

Lots of things, I suppose, but still.


Yeah, but there's been a movement to stop using the term in a negative light, and it's getting rarer all the time to hear someone say, "That's gay" or "Quit being gay" or whatever. More and more, even in younger circles, it's considered immature, ignorant, and less-than-hip nowadays.

Nexa

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 9:32am by Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#17 Dec 10 2008 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
******
30,106 posts
I also used to work with a group that linked together pan/bisexual, transgender, transsexual, intersexual and other gender variant types. I bet you could stick a whole bunch of other letters in there but really, as Nexa alluded to, it's easier to rename it to accommodate people who are unnamed and unclassified.

Also, if you have too many letters, it starts sounding really gay.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 9:32am by Annabella
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#18 Dec 10 2008 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't see anything particularly prejudiced about grouping people based on distinctions. I'm attracted to redheads. The fact that I refer to them as redheads rather than just "girls with hair" has little or nothing to do with my attraction do them.
#19 Dec 10 2008 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
YAY! Canaduhian
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Nexa wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Lady Tare wrote:
And gay means happy, so what could be better than that?


True, but it also means "rubbish", and what could be worse than that?

Lots of things, I suppose, but still.


Yeah, but there's been a movement to stop using the term in a negative light, and it's getting rarer all the time to hear someone say, "That's gay" or "Quit being gay" or whatever. More and more, even in younger circles, it's considered immature, ignorant, and less-than-hip nowadays.

Nexa

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 9:32am by Nexa


See? I'm totally hip.

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#20 Dec 10 2008 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
Tracer Bullet
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GwynapNud the Braindead wrote:
"the gays"
I've never heard this used outside of an ironic context.


#21 Dec 10 2008 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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#22 Dec 10 2008 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We do not say "The hetrosexuals" or "a hetrosexual".


You don't?

It's not like we'd always refer to they gays as "the gays" but when we are discussing an issue that directly pertains to one's sexuality, then you don't really have much choice.

Quote:
Yeah, but there's been a movement to stop using the term in a negative light, and it's getting rarer all the time to hear someone say, "That's gay" or "Quit being gay" or whatever. More and more, even in younger circles, it's considered immature, ignorant, and less-than-hip nowadays.


Is it really? I knew even gay people in school that would call something that they didn't like "gay".
#23 Dec 10 2008 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Anna, why *****? It seems more insulting really, like I'm doing something wrong or strange. It's like calling someone a deviant.
#24 Dec 10 2008 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Anna, why *****? It seems more insulting really, like I'm doing something wrong or strange. It's like calling someone a deviant.
Anna is a deviant, but that has nothing to do with the sex of her partners...
#25 Dec 10 2008 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Is this thread part of the larger gay agenda?
#26 Dec 10 2008 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
******
30,106 posts
Pensive wrote:
Anna, why *****? It seems more insulting really, like I'm doing something wrong or strange. It's like calling someone a deviant.


I love the word deviant. If nothing else, you question the nature of sexual deviancy in general. Plus, it's more inclusive--it's the gays, the pies, trans-, intersex, the kinky, the asexual, the polyamorous, everyone who doesn't fit in and adhere to the dominant sexual paradigm. And I've talked about it alot with my lefty ***** friends--you wouldn't include some gay conservative who oppresses everyone in every possible way except when it comes to their personal rights but you do include freaky heterosexuals who are more about questioning the dominant paradigm. It's all warm and fuzzy. It's genderless. It's not putting people in little boxes and figuring out how they need to act sexually. People get obsessed with whether someone is gay vs. bi vs. trans vs. whatever and I think it's counterproductive and limiting.

Edited, Dec 10th 2008 3:49pm by Annabella
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
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