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On lying to our childrenFollow

#52 Dec 08 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
It was the whole "you believe or you don't receive" thing at my house growing up. I knew around 6 or 7 that Santa wasn't real. I wasn't betrayed or hurt. I kind of figured that was the case when I never received what I'd asked for.

Edited, Dec 8th 2008 7:37pm by Katielynn
#53 Dec 08 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

A lot of mythologies are based on actual prehistoric events.


Sadly, no. A lot of actual prehistoric events are later shoehorned into mythos to lend them credibility.
I always liked the Ark story. And, it explained why there are no more unicorns.
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#54 Dec 08 2008 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

A lot of mythologies are based on actual prehistoric events.


Sadly, no. A lot of actual prehistoric events are later shoehorned into mythos to lend them credibility.
I always liked the Ark story. And, it explained why there are no more unicorns.


I'm mostly speaking of the 100s of 1000s of mythologies that actually exist that no one has really heard of. Perhaps people have claimed that a particular waterfall is the ***** of Rongo the sex god.. but that is not to say that some essence of the story existed.

I great deal of history can be gleaned from even the most ridiculous myths... most of the time more accurate history than recorded history.
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#55 Dec 08 2008 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Katielynn wrote:
I kind of figured that was the case when I never received what I'd asked for.

You're such a Charlie Brown. Smiley: lol
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#56 Dec 08 2008 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
Elinda wrote:
Katielynn wrote:
I kind of figured that was the case when I never received what I'd asked for.

You're such a Charlie Brown. Smiley: lol


Lol I remember one year I wanted this baby doll you filled up with warm water instead I got some kind of weird doll thing that it's hair grew when you lifted it's arm. Also depending on how much money we had sometimes all Santa brought was bakery items my dad got from work for free.
#57 Dec 08 2008 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
So I really don't know what I'm going to do on that front.
Paper dolls.
Screenshot

If you focus on 'giving' you're still focusing on the 'gift' as being the highlight of the holiday. I'd scrap the giving and receiving stuff all together and focus on peace and good will if you want your child to find some meaning in Christmas other than a time for material indulgence.



I couldn't care less whether the focus is on the gift or not. I'm have no interest in making some sort of stand on some high principle. I just find kids with the "gimmies" to be exceptionally obnoxious and whenever I meet one I have to struggle mightily with the urge to drop him or her head-first into the smallest of his/her over-sized present boxes.

I would rather try to have my kid be more concerned with giving joy to others than in getting stuff for himself, pretty much for no other reason than that I will find that attitude more pleasant to be around.

Consider it my Christmas gift to myself.
#58 Dec 08 2008 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Ambrya wrote:
I couldn't care less whether the focus is on the gift or not. I'm have no interest in making some sort of stand on some high principle. I just find kids with the "gimmies" to be exceptionally obnoxious and whenever I meet one I have to struggle mightily with the urge to drop him or her head-first into the smallest of his/her over-sized present boxes.

That's what I'm giving my son for Christmas...an oversized present box.

Then again, he's only 10 months old, so a big old box covered in crinkly paper will be the most fun he'll have!
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#59 Dec 08 2008 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
I couldn't care less whether the focus is on the gift or not. I'm have no interest in making some sort of stand on some high principle. I just find kids with the "gimmies" to be exceptionally obnoxious and whenever I meet one I have to struggle mightily with the urge to drop him or her head-first into the smallest of his/her over-sized present boxes.

That's what I'm giving my son for Christmas...an oversized present box.

Then again, he's only 10 months old, so a big old box covered in crinkly paper will be the most fun he'll have!


Ah yes I remember that...last Christmas Tristan was 7 months old and after he managed to get the paper off his gift he ignored the gift and had a grand old time with the paper. All that crinkly goodness!

This year I'm sure his interests will be a little more engaged by his present, but I expect the box will still be fun.
#60 Dec 09 2008 at 2:20 AM Rating: Decent
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My parents kept me believing in Santa for far too long. They were very careful to not be caught, too. As a child it was even a little embarrassing to have been kept in the dark for so long where my peers in elementary school were answering "the question" that they believed in the -spirit- of Santa. At that age I wanted to believe my parents over my peers.

I don't see anything wrong with telling them. I'm more likely to worry that the sorrow they feel when they find out the truth will outweigh the joy that the fantasy brings them. Personally I don't really appreciate having had my youthful naivety exploited to make me believe in what amounts to magic, in retrospect.

But that extends more to religion than to free presents.
#61 Dec 09 2008 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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We perpetuate the Santa myth in our house because it's a bit of fun. I suppose we wouldn't have any qualms about telling Mia he's not real if we were faced with a serious question about him. Perhaps more disturbing to me is the huge amount of advertising we see around this time of the year that is aimed at young children. Mia's list is as long as her arm and she's only 4.

Consume, consume, consume....
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#62 Dec 09 2008 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
Both should be treated with contempt and ridicule.
Ridicule? Really?

Joph said:

****, even if they believed in Santa I don't think my natural inclination would be to ridicule them.


Ok. Maybe ridicule is the wrong word.

But if an adult comes up to me and says he believes in Santa or the Easter bunny, and that I should too, then I'm going to assume he's taking the ****. And being of british descent, I am going to take the **** back.

I fail to see a difference if you swap 'easter bunny' for 'our Lord in Heaven who watches over me'.

Tho' come to think of it, I'm struggling to recall an incident in history that has led to the suppression or attempted annihilation of a people in the name of the Easter Bunny......So perhaps ridicule, contempt and derision would be a better way of putting it?
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#63 Dec 09 2008 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
Quote:
paulsol wrote:
Both should be treated with contempt and ridicule.
Ridicule? Really?

Joph said:

sh*t, even if they believed in Santa I don't think my natural inclination would be to ridicule them.


Ok. Maybe ridicule is the wrong word.

But if an adult comes up to me and says he believes in Santa or the Easter bunny, and that I should too, then I'm going to assume he's taking the ****. And being of british descent, I am going to take the **** back.

I fail to see a difference if you swap 'easter bunny' for 'our Lord in Heaven who watches over me'.

Tho' come to think of it, I'm struggling to recall an incident in history that has led to the suppression or attempted annihilation of a people in the name of the Easter Bunny......So perhaps ridicule, contempt and derision would be a better way of putting it?
Well if you agree the Easter Bunny is a symbol of EASTER...I guess it could represent sacrifice (and brutal torture) of the Son of God.
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#64 Dec 09 2008 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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If the easter bunny was depicted as a flayed and bleeding walking corpse it would be a more realistic depiction of the ressurrection for sure.
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#65 Dec 09 2008 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
If the easter bunny was depicted as a flayed and bleeding walking corpse it would be a more realistic depiction of the ressurrection for sure.
Dont forget the cross it has to shoulder.


edit:..hopefully before Tare saw it.



Edited, Dec 9th 2008 8:44pm by Elinda
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#66 Dec 09 2008 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Dont forget the cross it has to bare bear.


edit:..hopefully before Tare saw it.


FTFY

or am I /whooshing?
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#67 Dec 09 2008 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
A lot of mythologies are based on actual prehistoric events.

Sadly, no. A lot of actual prehistoric events are later shoehorned into mythos to lend them credibility.


With the abundance of the Great Flood myths across many cultures, I think its fair to assume that these culture went through some type of flood.

We do have scientific evidence of that.
#68 Dec 09 2008 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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With the abundance of the Great Flood myths across many cultures, I think its fair to assume that these culture went through some type of flood.


Which are then shoehorned into myths to lend them credibility. I believe that that was the point.
#69 Dec 09 2008 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
Quote:
paulsol wrote:
Both should be treated with contempt and ridicule.
Ridicule? Really?

Joph said:

sh*t, even if they believed in Santa I don't think my natural inclination would be to ridicule them.


Ok. Maybe ridicule is the wrong word.

But if an adult comes up to me and says he believes in Santa or the Easter bunny, and that I should too, then I'm going to assume he's taking the ****. And being of british descent, I am going to take the **** back.

I fail to see a difference if you swap 'easter bunny' for 'our Lord in Heaven who watches over me'.

Tho' come to think of it, I'm struggling to recall an incident in history that has led to the suppression or attempted annihilation of a people in the name of the Easter Bunny......So perhaps ridicule, contempt and derision would be a better way of putting it?


I don't ridicule people for their beliefs. People believe some pretty stupid stuff. That's their right. Ridicule however is fair game when they try to preach or throw their beliefs onto others.
#70 Dec 09 2008 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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With the abundance of the Great Flood myths across many cultures, I think its fair to assume that these culture went through some type of flood.

We do have scientific evidence of that.


Yes, people make up stories to explain why terrible things happen to otherwise average people and not to this other near identical group of average people. They usually involve the group of people licking the wrong nipple on Wednesday night or whatever the current social taboo is and angering the mighty all powerful being who seeks vengeance through water, because that's just how powerful being's roll.

The problem arises when people equate things like floods, which are essentially guaranteed to happen given sufficient time, and creation myths, etc.

But yes, it's fascinating that all cultures share certain myths. For about 15 minutes. True story: When I was a kid, Joseph Campbell threw me out of a lecture he was giving at Columbia. I've got your hero with many faces right here, *******. Hey, Joe, who's laughing now, corpse? The 'Roo, Joe, that's who. Hahahahahaha man I can't wait to go **** on his grave.



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#71 Dec 09 2008 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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When I was a kid, Joseph Campbell threw me out of a lecture he was giving at Columbia. I've got your hero with many faces right here, @#%^. Hey, Joe, who's laughing now, corpse? The 'Roo, Joe, that's who. Hahahahahaha man I can't wait to go sh*t on his grave.


I don't know who he is. Better or worse than Eliade?
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