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On lying to our childrenFollow

#1 Dec 08 2008 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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Ok, so I'm not winning mother of the year award this year because Hannah knows that Santa Claus is just pretend. She asked, I answered, I don't like lying to her about things because it's important to me that she knows that I'm an accurate source of information. Besides, Santa is really for the parents anyway.

Insert relevant comic strip here.

Despite the seeming concern to the contrary, she's still excited about Christmas, still talks about Santa coming (with the understanding that he's just pretend, but she LIKES to play pretend...she's got a great imagination!). Her Christmas has not, against evidently ALL the odds, been destroyed. Apparently, everyone that Smash's mother works with has decided that the only explanation is that I'm a closet Jehovah's Witness because who else would take away Santa from a three year old?

Anyway, how many of you have kids that *really* still believe in Santa (or ever did?), and do you think that either you or they would be particularly crushed if they were to cease such a belief? Sure, I can imagine it a great threat to bad behavior to exclaim that Santa is watching and won't bring presents, but do you really think they REALLY think that Santa is the one who won't be bringing anything or that they recognize it as a fairy tale with possibly real consequences? I don't remember a time before I recognized that "santa" had the same hand writing as my mother, and I still loved Christmas as a kid. Santa is a retail construction for goodness sake...what's the big deal....AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Nexa
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“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#3 Dec 08 2008 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure if Joph Jr. believes or not. He claims to but it's hard to tell if he does or if he just wants to or if he says he does because he thinks I want him to or what.

In any event, it doesn't worry me much. You only believe until you don't and then you spend the rest of your life not believing. There's worse things in life than holding childish beliefs as a child. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with being factual about it, either.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4 Dec 08 2008 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Apparently, everyone that Smash's mother works with has decided that the only explanation is that I'm a closet Jehovah's Witness because who else would take away Santa from a three year old?


That's funny. I've told that story to dozens of people and they all thought it was great.

I believed in Santa for a few years, and felt horribly betrayed when I found out he wasn't real. That may have had more to do with how I found out; but either way, it's an unnecessary risk. I applaud you, if that matters.

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#5 Dec 08 2008 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sukkysukkynow wrote:
and hanah knows her mom ischeated on her dad with three black Richards
WTF? Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#6 Dec 08 2008 at 7:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Sukkysukkynow wrote:
and hanah knows her mom ischeated on her dad with three black Richards
WTF? Smiley: laugh


It enjoys being sub-defaulted. I'm doing my best to accommodate it.

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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#7 Dec 08 2008 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
Apparently, everyone that Smash's mother works with has decided that the only explanation is that I'm a closet Jehovah's Witness because who else would take away Santa from a three year old?


That's funny. I've told that story to dozens of people and they all thought it was great.

I believed in Santa for a few years, and felt horribly betrayed when I found out he wasn't real. That may have had more to do with how I found out; but either way, it's an unnecessary risk. I applaud you, if that matters.



I honestly think she was inquiring because the concept freaked her out...she's a pretty smart kid. She was asking things like, "When does Santa come?" "He comes into our house?" "When does Santa come in our house?" and then, "At night!? He comes in hour house at night while we're sleeping?!"

I couldn't carry on like that. Besides, I have no fireplace/chimney set up with which to perpetuate the myth. She also kept commenting on how different the different Santas look (mall vs. storybook vs. TV show etc...). I couldn't bring myself to tell the "Santa's elves dress up like Santa to find out what kids want" crap. I just really hate lying to her, especially about (what I would debate to be) stupid stuff. I mean, I'll lie to her about cheating on her dad with three black Richards, but not this.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#8 Dec 08 2008 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, yeah, the three black Richards thing is definitely in the "I'll tell you when you're older" camp.

I originally typed "I'll tell you when you're odder", but I just don't know if that's possible under the circumstances.

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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#9 Dec 08 2008 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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My husband still operates on the assumption that our children, umm our very grown-up offspring, believe in Santa.

I don't recall a time that I actually thought Santa Claus was 'real', and I suspect my kids are astute enough to have come to the same conclusion many, many years ago.

It did feel weird acting as if Santa were really real 'for the kids sake'. So, I tried to avoid the subject. I mean christ, they're both athesists due to my lack of faith in the unproven. It would be really hypo-critical to support Santa and not Jesus.

I had my kids convinced I had my own magic though - "Mama Magic". It healed boo boos, made carrots taste better and was the driving force behind 'wish bubble' development in the pizza crust...amongst other things.

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#10 Dec 08 2008 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Well, yeah, the three black Richards thing is definitely in the "I'll tell you when you're older" camp.

I originally typed "I'll tell you when you're odder", but I just don't know if that's possible under the circumstances.



Well, it would really be hard for her to believe that I managed to get all three black men in Maine into bed at once and coordinated that while her father was at work.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#11 Dec 08 2008 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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And that they'd all be named Richard.

Unless that's their last name, I guess.

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#12 Dec 08 2008 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
I don't recall a time that I actually thought Santa Claus was 'real', and I suspect my kids are astute enough to have come to the same conclusion many, many years ago.
See, I figure the same but, if he wants to play along, then why "spoil" it? We don't really do the whole "OMG I hear reindeer on the roof!" and tracking via NORAD and threats to call Santa and all that rigamarole. It's really just presents under the tree with Santa's name mixed among the ones from Flea and myself. I mean, hell, last year I crudely wrapped a present in scraps of paper, bits of newspaper, old junk mail fliers & coupons and said it was from the cat. I'm hoping the kid doesn't believe that the cat actually trotted down to Toys 'R Us and bought & wrapped a gift. But it's still fun to pretend.

I never really did the Santa thing as a kid because my older sister used to snoop for presents all the time and then would show them to me weeks before the holiday. So getting the "Santa" gift that had been sitting in my mom's closet since Dec 3rd wasn't all that convincing.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#13 Dec 08 2008 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Not having children of my own, I can only relate my own personal memories. I don't remember a time when I did believe in Santa (or the easter bunny or the tooth fairy or jesus etc). I've pretty much always been of the opinion that its all ******** and everyone is lying to you.

It wasn't exactly an Ozzie and Harriet household.
#14 Dec 08 2008 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
I pretended to believe in Santa long after I actually did. And I will admit that I did believe in Santa, mostly because I never thought my mother would lie to me.

Thankfully, I was smart enough to understand the difference between this and her lying to me about the three black Richards she cheated on my father with.
#15 Dec 08 2008 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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The rule in my family (which I have passed down to my kids) is "you stop believin', you stop receivin'" so everyone professes that they believe that Santa Claus extists.

I know that my kids figured out that there really isn't a true Santa Claus when they were each around 7 or so, mostly from their friends telling them. Then they asked and I told them and explained that all the Christmas miracles are from good-meaning people.
#16 Dec 08 2008 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:


I never really did the Santa thing as a kid because my older sister used to snoop for presents all the time and then would show them to me weeks before the holiday. So getting the "Santa" gift that had been sitting in my mom's closet since Dec 3rd wasn't all that convincing.
Yeah, I was the youngest of three, which, I'm sure is a big part 'not believing'.

It is fun to play the Santa game though. Kids must go along with it to insure maximum giftage. Standing outside in line for an hour and a half to sit on Santa's lap when it's 0 degrees wasn't to fun though.
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#17 Dec 08 2008 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
With Christmas having played no significant role in my childhood (I grew up in a neighborhood that was predominantly Jewish), I have always found the whole Santa thing pretty silly. Not that children believe in it-- that's what children do-- but that parents seem to cling so tenaciously to the idea that absent the lie, no child can possibly enjoy the holiday.

I remember talking a Christian friend out of his belief in Santa when I was a kid. We were probably 5 or 6, and I argued that given the size of the Earth, a Santa-based delivery mechanism was unreasonable. I also questioned Santa's funding methods, since he seemed to deliver a large number of mass-produced toys and lacked any apparent revenue stream, and even at that tender age I held no illusions about the altruistic nature of Corporate America. I like to think that at the cost of ruining one Christmas, I helped little Darryl explore the importance of critical thinking.
#18 Dec 08 2008 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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The Mr and I were just talking about this last night and what our course of action will be when Zavi comes up to us and says he doesnt believe in Santa anymore. We view it differently, where I'm like Thumb, you stop believing you stop receiving. The Mr believes that kids should still get a present from Santa as it would look weird from the younger siblings perspective.


Zavi still believes and wholeheartedly at 6. In fact Santa emailed him yesterday with a video email and if it works and you watch it, a picture of Zavi was in Santas Book. When that part popped up Zavis eyes got as huge as dish plates and he hs not stopped asking since how Santa got his picture Smiley: lol I just told him obviously Santa has his ways. I figure this video email added another 2 more years of belief into his system.


The way I figure it, you dont get to be a kid for long. And if as a kid you want to believe, I am all for helping you keep that belief going until you grow out of it.Im not going to be the one to take that away, it will happen fast enough on it's own with kids at school. Zavi still clings to the belief of the tooth fairy too. My theory is that it has to do with seeing results. He may not see Santa or the tooth fairy, but he knows if he puts a tooth under his pillow, when he wakes up a present will be there in its place. And he sees the eaten cookies, the gifts, and the note from Santa each year. yet he has never seen any results from the trolls in the woods my dear husband talks about every hike we go for, and so Zavi rightfully questions if those are real Smiley: laugh
#19 Dec 08 2008 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Lady DSD wrote:

Zavi still believes and wholeheartedly at 6. In fact Santa emailed him yesterday with a video email and if it works and you watch it, a picture of Zavi was in Santas Book.


That's cute. Although the way santa read some of his lines, with pauses at odd points, it sounded kind of creepy, like there was suppoesd to be some hidden inuendo in there or something.
#20 Dec 08 2008 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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When you fill the thing out it is mainly for Canadaians. I just assumed they thought Santa talked like that Smiley: lol
#21 Dec 08 2008 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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I believed in Santa for a long time. My younger sister is 6 years younger than me, so just as I might have been growing out of the belief, my parents ramped it all up again for her benefit. Also, I figured there *had* to be a Santa, since all I ever heard from my parents was that we had no money, so where were these gifts coming from??

My oldest son wanted to keep believing, even after he was told there was no Santa. I can't remember why I told him, I think he was really hanging his hat on something that year that I just couldn't afford to get him. I explained the whole myth to him and he didn't buy my explanation, haha.

Noah believes in it all, now. Santa, the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, etc. I'm like DSD: I'll let him believe. I like seeing the look on his face when he talks about Santa and the other "present givers" out there. It's not hurting anything.
#22 Dec 08 2008 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lady DSD wrote:

The way I figure it, you dont get to be a kid for long. And if as a kid you want to believe, I am all for helping you keep that belief going until you grow out of it.


See, I think that's fine. It's clear that Zavi WANTS to believe in Santa and if Hannah was happy with the concept and wasn't obviously skeptical, I would have let it go. However, she wanted *answers* dammit!

Nexa
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“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#23 Dec 08 2008 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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When I found out that Santa wasn't real, I didn't care, so long as i was still getting presents. Let's be honest, those presents are what most kids are about.
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#24 Dec 08 2008 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
When I found out that Santa wasn't real, I didn't care, so long as i was still getting presents. Let's be honest, those presents are what most kids are about.
I was about the cookies.
#25 Dec 08 2008 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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I can recall feeling some trepidation at the fact that a fat man dressed in red could manage to sneak into my house in the middle of the night to do whatever, and his stalking abilities were so supreme that he managed to know whether I had been naughty or not.

I also recall a particular Christmas that I spent at my grandmother's house where I stayed up quite late listening to a radio broadcast describing Santa's progress across the globe, presumably by the previously described NORAD tracking method (as if NORAD was so bored they could just take time out to track Santa). I remember that I was past the believing in Santa at that point, but for some reason that broadcast facinated me.

I can't say I blame you for giving up the truth to the little tyke though. To me, it's more important to explain what the meaning behind the holiday is rather than to perpetuate a false belief in an imaginary character.
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#26 Dec 08 2008 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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We'll have to see if Thom buys into the whole farce. Which may be difficult because his mother is so impatient she will tell you what your present is then force you to open it up three weeks before the occasion. I already got the t-shirt the bought to replace the one of mine she ruined (Inigo Montoya) and the extra one she bought to replace the other new one that will be ruined in a year.
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