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#52 Dec 07 2008 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
That said, the only good unions are doing at present are to provide a credible threat for people who are being underpaid and are not in a union.


Apart from the fact ununionised members earn more in highly unionised trades than ununionised members in those that are not?

Yeah, OK.
#53 Dec 08 2008 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
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30,106 posts
Quote:

What the **** do you think will happen if unions vanish from the US? That corporations will persist in paying living wages and benefits to employees because they love to make less money?

Let me re-iterate that you're a ******* fool.


I will also say that I think the decline of the union is the reason that the real wages in the US have fallen since 1968. If wages kept up with inflation since then then minimum wages would be 13$ an hour. We have a highly funded lobby that makes sure that wages are kept down and b/c of inflation, corporations get away with paying people less and less.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#54 Dec 08 2008 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
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20,643 posts
Where's Jimmy Hoffa when you need him...
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#55 Dec 08 2008 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
The major problem is that of health care costs. I saw a news article from a few months back in which US automakers were building a plant in Canada. Why? They can't afford US health care costs. (This is what they said, of course reality is more complex).

But wait, aren't taxes higher? Of course they are. But health care is simply more efficient. Every first world economy except the US have single payer (government) health care which costs 2-3 times less per person. And when it is 1/6 of the total economy, this is a big deal.

It really doesn't matter if the US bails out the car makers. The only thing that matters long term is that the US moves to a more efficient system of health care.

Since the only existing examples are Europe-style, and health care is very, very important, that is the only responsible way to go. Although there are debates as to whether Canada-style, English-style or German-style health care is best, compared to how much money the US is paying right now to cover so few people, it really doesn't much matter.

Fix health care and US industries can compete.

Edit: removed spurious comments

Edited, Dec 8th 2008 11:26am by yossarian
#56 Dec 08 2008 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
******
30,106 posts
Quote:


So I work in an industry in which some are unionized, some are not. What Kavekk is indicating is that if unions go away, people will make *more* money. That is very, vary hard to believe.


No, you are misreading it. He's saying the opposite.
____________________________
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#57 Dec 08 2008 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
Commander Annabella wrote:
Quote:


So I work in an industry in which some are unionized, some are not. What Kavekk is indicating is that if unions go away, people will make *more* money. That is very, vary hard to believe.


No, you are misreading it. He's saying the opposite.


I did misread it. Sorry. I now officially have nothing to say about Kavekk's post and deleted the part of my post referring to his.
#58 Dec 09 2008 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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9,997 posts
I vote yes. While I share others' contempt with the idea of bailing out the execs that ****** themselves over, they've already agreed to make several personal concessions. This comes to bailing out the auto-workers, and the industry. 99.9% of the people who will be ****** over if we don't bailout the big three will be people who didn't do a damn thing wrong. Nevermind the economic shockwaves their collapse would cause. Few people would not feel the effects.

As long as the money goes to retooling for green vehicles and the executives aren't pocketing the money, I have no qualms with an auto bailout.
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