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Eat the Rich!Follow

#1 Nov 23 2008 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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So our Autistic Prime Minister Gorgon Brown is helping us out of this economic ****-shoot by trying to revitalise the retail sector (cutting sales tax).

To counter accusations of over-borrowing, he's expected to offset this by raising the income tax rate for higher earners.

At the moment, we pay on a sliding scale in UK:

Earsnings up to £2,230 ($3,300)taxed at 10%
Earnings between £2,230 and £34,600 ($51,670) taxed at 20%
Earnings over £34,600 are taxed at 40%

The word is that earnings over £150,000 ($224K) will be taxed at 45%

Given the benefits I and my family have received over the years in terms of family support, unemployment benefit and free education & healthcare, I really don't begrudge.

While I do feel a tad grumpy when I look at the £,000s the tax man takes off me each month, I have enough left over to live a debauched liefstyle.

So what do people think in principle?

Edited, Nov 23rd 2008 5:05pm by Nobby
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#2 Nov 23 2008 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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There is an element of social responsibility we should all carry and I agree with a sliding scale of taxation.

The only question is haggling over figures and how the tax is spent. In principle I have no issues at all. That being said, the majority of my income is taxed in the 20% band and not as much in the 40%. I may revisit that opinion in a few years! Smiley: wink

#3 Nov 23 2008 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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I've always been a proponent of a flat tax rate. Cut out all the loopholes. People who make more...pay more. End of discussion.
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#4 Nov 23 2008 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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I've always been a proponent of a flat tax rate. Cut out all the loopholes. People who make more...pay more. End of discussion.


Does not work. If they made a flat tax rate the high end tax payers would pay less and the lower rate payers would pay more.
The government needs to raise a set amount of tax, either they levy more of that on the richer (and more able to pay) or everyone pays an increase. That would also include those who simply do not have the money.

Proof that changing lower level tax levels is painful

The government has paid heavily in the past for playing with the lower tax brackets. A few hundred pounds a year is nothing to someone earning 150k, its a lot of money for some on the lower tax brackets. And most people are in the lower 2 tax brackets.
#5 Nov 23 2008 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Commander GwynapNud wrote:
Does not work. If they made a flat tax rate the high end tax payers would pay less and the lower rate payers would pay more.


Smiley: confused

10% of 100 = 10
10% of 1000 = 100
10% of 10000 = 1000

Is there some kind of tax math that I'm missing here?
#6 Nov 23 2008 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Queen NixNot wrote:
Commander GwynapNud wrote:
Does not work. If they made a flat tax rate the high end tax payers would pay less and the lower rate payers would pay more.


Smiley: confused

10% of 100 = 10
10% of 1000 = 100
10% of 10000 = 1000

Is there some kind of tax math that I'm missing here?
Yeah

£10 a week to someone on a low income is a helluva hit

£1K to a merchant banker is a nice meal out with friends.

A 5% hit on my tax would only affect my savings, not my lifestyle.

When I was struggling on a low income, a few pounds short could make my life a stressful nightmare.
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#7 Nov 23 2008 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
That's a good point. I guess income is more like an exponential graph instead of a straight line.
#8 Nov 23 2008 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Huh, I always thought the first few thousand were completely untaxed. Could be being young or student that it's the case for me but it isn't usually.

Anyway, I'm all for raising taxes to 50% for the super rich (i.e. £200k +) if it makes the first few ks completely free, or extending the 20% bracket to 38k, etc

#9 Nov 23 2008 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Queen NixNot wrote:
That's a good point. I guess income is more like an exponential graph instead of a straight line.
Pretty much.

It's more complicated through 'disposable income'.

There's a level of income needed to support a family in basic accommodation and on an acceptable diet. A significant number of families in the UK are in very simple housing and have to scrabble for loose change to pay rent and feed the kids (and I know the same's true in USA).

Taking 10% off their income could be devastating.

For bourgeouis gits like me, they'd have to take 75% of my earnings before it impacted on my ability to keep the kids fed and under a warm roof.
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#10 Nov 23 2008 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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+1

Edited, Nov 23rd 2008 6:12pm by Youshutup
#11 Nov 23 2008 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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In principle!

In practice our government, to plagerise Pratchett, couldn't run a whelk stall.
#12 Nov 23 2008 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does not work. If they made a flat tax rate the high end tax payers would pay less and the lower rate payers would pay more.


Hahahahahahahah. Ahahahaha. No, god no, sucker. Do you REALLY THINK that if a popular, simple tax code resulted in the wealthy paying LESS is wouldn't have been law thirty years ago? Are you on drugs? The wealthy in the US pay a minuscule percentage of their wealth in taxes compared to the poor. On the order of 1/1000th as much. Wake the fuck up and stop repeating what you heard on talk radio five years ago.

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#13 Nov 23 2008 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
Nobby wrote:
For bourgeouis gits like me, they'd have to take 75% of my earnings before it impacted on my ability to keep the kids fed and under a warm roof.


I can has £z plox?
#14 Nov 23 2008 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Hahahahahahahah. Ahahahaha. No, god no, sucker. Do you REALLY THINK that if a popular, simple tax code resulted in the wealthy paying LESS is wouldn't have been law thirty years ago? Are you on drugs? The wealthy in the US pay a minuscule percentage of their wealth in taxes compared to the poor. On the order of 1/1000th as much. Wake the @#%^ up and stop repeating what you heard on talk radio five years ago.


You are talking about the super rich in the US, not those earning a salary in the UK. The kind you talk of earn thier money from shares and options and earn enough to pay for accountants to perform such calculations. Many of the equivalent in the UK also plow such money back into other investments.

Also what is your definition of rich? To many in the UK 150k is rich. Thats not enough to buy the kind of creative accountancy needed to hide your earnings to pay miniscule amounts.

We do tax the rich a lot more in the UK than in the US. Its why so many of our rich end up moving to California Smiley: tongue

Lastly, this was about agreement 'in principle'. My point stands, for the majority of UK taxpayers which is what Nobby posted about. I do however completely concede the point about the superrich. What would you have us do?

Edited, Nov 23rd 2008 6:24pm by GwynapNud
#15 Nov 23 2008 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Queen NixNot wrote:
Nobby wrote:
For bourgeouis gits like me, they'd have to take 75% of my earnings before it impacted on my ability to keep the kids fed and under a warm roof.


I can has £z plox?
Only if you're sitting on a rug by the ATM with a dog on a piece of string.
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#16 Nov 23 2008 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Does not work. If they made a flat tax rate the high end tax payers would pay less and the lower rate payers would pay more.


Hahahahahahahah. Ahahahaha. No, god no, sucker. Do you REALLY THINK that if a popular, simple tax code resulted in the wealthy paying LESS is wouldn't have been law thirty years ago? Are you on drugs? The wealthy in the US pay a minuscule percentage of their wealth in taxes compared to the poor. On the order of 1/1000th as much. Wake the fuck up and stop repeating what you heard on talk radio five years ago.



Well, in the US the wealthy get all those loopholes, I dunno about the UK. Do the wealthy get all the deductions and end up paying almost nothing there too?
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#17 Nov 23 2008 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
Do the wealthy get all the deductions and end up paying almost nothing there too?
Many do, yep.
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#18 Nov 23 2008 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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You are talking about the super rich in the US, not those earning a salary in the UK. The kind you talk of earn thier money from shares and options and earn enough to pay for accountants to perform such calculations. Many of the equivalent in the UK also plow such money back into other investments.

Also what is your definition of rich? To many in the UK 150k is rich. Thats not enough to buy the kind of creative accountancy needed to hide your earnings to pay miniscule amounts.

We do tax the rich a lot more in the UK than in the US.


Marginally more. "A lot" more is a ludicrous hand waive.


Lastly, this was about agreement 'in principle'. My point stands, for the majority of UK taxpayers which is what Nobby posted about. I do however completely concede the point about the superrich. What would you have us do?


Tax wealth instead of income. Have a vat for purchases. Problem solved. Everyone knows the answer, it's not complicated, it just would possibly result in the 2280 Rothchild great great great great great great great great great grandchild not being guaranteed massive power for falling out a lucky ******. Can't have that, now can we?



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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#19 Nov 23 2008 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Tax wealth instead of income. Have a vat for purchases. Problem solved. Everyone knows the answer, it's not complicated, it just would possibly result in the 2280 Rothchild great great great great great great great great great grandchild not being guaranteed massive power for falling out a lucky ******. Can't have that, now can we?


But that is unpopular with the middle class. which has been a growing section of society. They have recently had to raise inheritance tax in the UK. As a nations wealth increases and more people have a little money to pass on to their children, the idea of tax breaks increases. How do you propose breaking that cycle and truly enforcing inheritance tax on the Rothchilds?

I know I may be asking what you consider silly questions but really, I would like to know in real terms, how would you enact a policy which would appear to be very unpopular to the most powerful people in the country?
#20 Nov 23 2008 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Smash showed me the light in this thread about this topic.
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#21 Nov 23 2008 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know I may be asking what you consider silly questions but really, I would like to know in real terms, how would you enact a policy which would appear to be very unpopular to the most powerful people in the country?


Shot a few dozen in the face. I imagine that would be sufficient incentive for the rest. Is yours a serious question? There is no way to tax the wealthy, because they control everything. A violent uprising of the middle class would work, but they're the middle class. Lazy, disinterested, and easily bought off.

There's no *actual* solution to wealth disparity in modern society. Those being oppressed are easily convinced they're the oppressors. It's the genius of postmodern propaganda that has solved the revolution problem for the ruling class for all time.

Glad you asked?

impressed was probably funnier

Edited, Nov 23rd 2008 7:53pm by Smasharoo
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 Nov 23 2008 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
It's the genius of postmodern propaganda that has solved the revolution problem for the ruling class for all time.
And there's me thinking I'm the most pompous, pretentious **** here.

Off my lawn!!!!
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#23 Nov 23 2008 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
It's the genius of postmodern propaganda that has solved the revolution problem for the ruling class for all time.
And there's me thinking I'm the most pompous, pretentious **** here.

Off my lawn!!!!


Should that not be get out of my kitchen? Smiley: clown
#24 Nov 23 2008 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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Commander GwynapNud wrote:
Nobby wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
It's the genius of postmodern propaganda that has solved the revolution problem for the ruling class for all time.
And there's me thinking I'm the most pompous, pretentious **** here.

Off my lawn!!!!


Should that not be get out of my kitchen? Smiley: clown


Nobby's not a woman... why would he be in the kitchen?
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#25 Nov 23 2008 at 4:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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And there's me thinking I'm the most pompous, pretentious **** here.


You'll always be older, so there's that to cling to. Also, taller. Also, also, this isn't me being pretentious. Me being pretentious would involve me quoting Lyotard then feigning surprise when someone didn't recognize it.



____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#26 Nov 23 2008 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Shot a few dozen in the face


Been tried in France and Russia, a new one pops up in their place. We could put them on a deadly version of the weakest link. Entertainment at the same time! Smiley: smile

Smasharoo wrote:
Glad you asked?


I would like a real solution. Will Borak have one do you think? Will he improve things?
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